[QUOTE=ultradrvr;430940]Only on the 3rd response does the crap start flying ... getting slow on the reaction time.

:rolleyes:

You wouldn't be given the choice to "pass" ...

Probably half of the DHL cargo won't even see the inside of a UPS aircraft, as if we could do something about it anyway !

DHL management is the one to be angry with. And your own management for letting things get to this point.

Slamming a UPS crewmember indicates your complete arrogance and ignorance of the circumstances that surround this deal.

Later,

Brown CC

Time to move it
 

I think in consideration of those about to get hurt in this deal, that we should move our discussion of this deal to our B&G.

TH1

Salt in the wounds
 

I side with the ABX/Astar drivers on the necessity of this post. Maybe it's because I have some very close friends who started at ABX and DHL as wholey owned airlines about the time I was hired at UPS. ABX wages among others were used to strengthen our arguments for higher wages, etc.
Maybe in 10-15 years UPS contracts out most of our Intl. ops.
Know it's business blah blah, but our junior IPA pilots are not under threat of furlough without the business deal. Have many posts on the subject how UPS is extraordinarily optimized in the modes of transport and they are as furlough proof as we ever have.
Good for us, but an IPA pilot didn't need the DHL contract to have a job. UPS still PI$$es away current contracts. In any case, it is salt in the wounds as I watch these buds looking at hell in the face.

Well said TH1. Even though none of the pilots on either side has any control over this deal, it does sting when someone posts a sentiment that appears to hope for the end of so many other pilot's careers. For those of us on the wrong side of this deal, every month that an agreement between UPS and DHL is delayed means a couple more decent paychecks before the door slams shut. While I certainly don't wish for any junior UPS guys to be furloughed, odds are, they will eventually be recalled. When ABX and ASTAR guys get the letter, it will be forever. Think how it would have sounded when Eastern or Pan Am were disappearing if Delta or American pilots were heard in public saying they were looking forward to getting the extra passengers.

Dog, You posted while I was still typing my last post. Thanks for your support.

Thanks guys. I knew there were some decent folk over there at Brown. ;)

Not according to Lekites. He says that if no DHL deal, all DC-8s parked and furloughs commence. What's your source that says otherwise?

I agree, what's the point of rubbing it in for our felow yellow aviators? To them it's like a funeral... and some of us are acting as if a big party was going on... :(

I don't know what Lekites said. Perhaps you can post for everyones knowledge. I do know that UPS managers/planners in SDF stated last November that they were going to keep the 8's parked on the ramps and at ROW through the summer of 2008 to cover peak flying to minimize outside peak contracting. Also the plan for 2009 and beyond. It appeared obvious at the BPM's attended as a line slug that UPS didn't really want to get caught short of lift, 8's give UPS alot of options/bargaining power on the cheap. One is negotiating power with customers to prevent Fedex from pointing out how short UPS is on lift and how that can affect service, also allows UPS to mull over future 767 deliveries, etc with Boeing, like when UPS can'xd the rest of the A300 deliveries. Even if 8's are parked, likely they would not dump the 767 orders at same time giving UPS a huge shortfall in lift. If they trade out the 767 for an 8, still will need crews to staff the new deliveries.
Other clues UPS puts out despite claims of imminent furlough, DC-8 crews are considered critical through peak, they will also be 'critical' for peak 2009 if the Peak Planning team has their way. Also, as I frequently posted in other threads, the network is greatly optimixed, UPS from 97-present has constantly been maximizing lift on airplanes for specific destinations to make core product service. In other words, a boatload of NDA product goes from SDF to ORD via truck and not by plane. Only the really highly profitable early am delivery stuff makes the planes because ground transport doesn't make it in time. We use to have 30 pilots a week needed to make service from gateways like BHM-SDF (using an 8 and a 727 because SDF couldn't take all the volume). With 1. Worldport capacity now capable, 2. Teamsters gave UPS Team drivers
3. A300. UPS now only needs 10 pilots a week. But 10 very critical pilots that are optimized. If Lekites wants to make service which UPS brags is the reason for their success, their is a minimum of airplanes necessary to make that service. UPS is pretty close to that margin. You can post that Lekites says we are going to furlough and park 8's, am sure he says this to whomever. The business facts don't really support the model as they are clearly using. Bluster is good, but in this case, not supported by what the rest of management is doing. UPS also stated that they were going to reduce the crews in each fleet to optimize, notice that they did not follow through on this bluster either. Why? Perhaps because the working managers knew that they really can't cut the meat because the system is fairly well optimized as a whole. Just my observations from being in SDF, working in the TC, and seeing and talking with lots of different management types, etc.

I'm not sure that statement is as true as you or I would like to believe that it is. We had a briefing from the airline pres. in CGN a week or so back and he pretty much laid it on the line for us. Without this deal we were heading for some very unpleasant news. Don't forget that these guys react and their reactions don't always meet the situation. They are experts at making the square peg fit the round hole. They will cut off their nose to spite their faces. In the end it all works out for them.