Ups/dhl
#11
"Or if the glass is half-full, it could mean the IPA pilots doing the flying for DHL in Europe/Asia."
Don't be so sure that it won't be DHL that moves the UPS freight in other countries.
If the UPS/DHL deal is inked, There is an extremely likely possibility that UPS boxes will move on any one of the hundreds of local DHL planes based in one of the dozens of countries around the world. If you think your contract is strong and solid enough to prevent this, you may be in for a nasty surprise. DHL has been playing shell games for years with boxes, taxes, and regulations. They are experts at this and it will be next to impossible to track and prove who has your freight on board - and then enforce your rights - when this all happens half a world away.
I'm not saying you don't have a good contract and a valid claim to your freight. I'm just saying that you shouldn't assume you won't have a fight on your hands. Once this camel gets his nose into your tent, you're going to be dealing with the beast for the rest of your life.
Driver
Don't be so sure that it won't be DHL that moves the UPS freight in other countries.
If the UPS/DHL deal is inked, There is an extremely likely possibility that UPS boxes will move on any one of the hundreds of local DHL planes based in one of the dozens of countries around the world. If you think your contract is strong and solid enough to prevent this, you may be in for a nasty surprise. DHL has been playing shell games for years with boxes, taxes, and regulations. They are experts at this and it will be next to impossible to track and prove who has your freight on board - and then enforce your rights - when this all happens half a world away.
I'm not saying you don't have a good contract and a valid claim to your freight. I'm just saying that you shouldn't assume you won't have a fight on your hands. Once this camel gets his nose into your tent, you're going to be dealing with the beast for the rest of your life.
Driver
Here's a very likely scenario. Our contract with UPS allows UPS to use common carriage deliver packages to locations around the world where volume is not great enough to warrant putting a browntail aircraft on. UPS instead utilizes the belly space on pax carriers or buys space on other freighters for the small amount of volume needed in those locations. I can see UPS making a deal with DHL to utilize their large network of contracted lift to carry those packages that now go common carriage on other carriers.
DHL does have great exposure around the world and it would allow UPS to greatly simplify it's sub-browntail lift carriage.
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Wouldn't it have been easier to put it under the
thread I already started earlier with the same quote? (UPS/DHL)
Well, at least Flybycable posts a link to the story you’re quoting…
http://www.scdigest.com/assets/newsviews/08-07-07-1.pdf
I’ve said it before and will say it again – this deal is very bad news for UPS pilots. My friends who work for DHL in Germany tell me that if we think UPS likes to be in control we ain’t seen nothing yet.
I think that once UPS and DHL management teams get used to dealing with each other on a daily basis they’ll try to expand this deal by inviting a third airline into the mix. Then we’ll be doing all DHL flying in the US, DHL will do our flying in Europe and the third airline will be doing all the flying for the two of us in Asia.
Control is one thing, making even more money is an even bigger thing.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong but…
thread I already started earlier with the same quote? (UPS/DHL)
Well, at least Flybycable posts a link to the story you’re quoting…
http://www.scdigest.com/assets/newsviews/08-07-07-1.pdf
I’ve said it before and will say it again – this deal is very bad news for UPS pilots. My friends who work for DHL in Germany tell me that if we think UPS likes to be in control we ain’t seen nothing yet.
I think that once UPS and DHL management teams get used to dealing with each other on a daily basis they’ll try to expand this deal by inviting a third airline into the mix. Then we’ll be doing all DHL flying in the US, DHL will do our flying in Europe and the third airline will be doing all the flying for the two of us in Asia.
Control is one thing, making even more money is an even bigger thing.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong but…
#13
Retired Doug herder
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Former DC8 73 Capt DHLAirways/Astar. Retired
Posts: 424
Wouldn't it have been easier to put it under the
thread I already started earlier with the same quote? (UPS/DHL)
Well, at least Flybycable posts a link to the story you’re quoting…
http://www.scdigest.com/assets/newsviews/08-07-07-1.pdf
I’ve said it before and will say it again – this deal is very bad news for UPS pilots. My friends who work for DHL in Germany tell me that if we think UPS likes to be in control we ain’t seen nothing yet.
I think that once UPS and DHL management teams get used to dealing with each other on a daily basis they’ll try to expand this deal by inviting a third airline into the mix. Then we’ll be doing all DHL flying in the US, DHL will do our flying in Europe and the third airline will be doing all the flying for the two of us in Asia.
Control is one thing, making even more money is an even bigger thing.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong but…
thread I already started earlier with the same quote? (UPS/DHL)
Well, at least Flybycable posts a link to the story you’re quoting…
http://www.scdigest.com/assets/newsviews/08-07-07-1.pdf
I’ve said it before and will say it again – this deal is very bad news for UPS pilots. My friends who work for DHL in Germany tell me that if we think UPS likes to be in control we ain’t seen nothing yet.
I think that once UPS and DHL management teams get used to dealing with each other on a daily basis they’ll try to expand this deal by inviting a third airline into the mix. Then we’ll be doing all DHL flying in the US, DHL will do our flying in Europe and the third airline will be doing all the flying for the two of us in Asia.
Control is one thing, making even more money is an even bigger thing.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong but…
#14
Since all of the cargo growth is international, the outsourcing trends will put a big damper on any kind of growth at UPS. This is just my opinion and I hope I'm wrong, but I see the writing on the wall. As far as growth of the airline at UPS, I think it about as big as its going to get. Future growth will be primarily from US to international destinations as foreign country point to point flying will probably be done by other contracted carriers.
I'm not a doom and gloom guy by any stretch of the imagination, but I see this as simple reality.
I'm not a doom and gloom guy by any stretch of the imagination, but I see this as simple reality.
#15
Wouldn't it have been easier to put it under the
thread I already started earlier with the same quote? (UPS/DHL)
Well, at least Flybycable posts a link to the story you’re quoting…
http://www.scdigest.com/assets/newsviews/08-07-07-1.pdf
I’ve said it before and will say it again – this deal is very bad news for UPS pilots. My friends who work for DHL in Germany tell me that if we think UPS likes to be in control we ain’t seen nothing yet.
I think that once UPS and DHL management teams get used to dealing with each other on a daily basis they’ll try to expand this deal by inviting a third airline into the mix. Then we’ll be doing all DHL flying in the US, DHL will do our flying in Europe and the third airline will be doing all the flying for the two of us in Asia.
Control is one thing, making even more money is an even bigger thing.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong but…
thread I already started earlier with the same quote? (UPS/DHL)
Well, at least Flybycable posts a link to the story you’re quoting…
http://www.scdigest.com/assets/newsviews/08-07-07-1.pdf
I’ve said it before and will say it again – this deal is very bad news for UPS pilots. My friends who work for DHL in Germany tell me that if we think UPS likes to be in control we ain’t seen nothing yet.
I think that once UPS and DHL management teams get used to dealing with each other on a daily basis they’ll try to expand this deal by inviting a third airline into the mix. Then we’ll be doing all DHL flying in the US, DHL will do our flying in Europe and the third airline will be doing all the flying for the two of us in Asia.
Control is one thing, making even more money is an even bigger thing.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong but…
You're paranoia is getting the best of you. Even before the DHL deal was announced the entire UPS global air network of browntail flying was about as big as it was going to get as far as destinations served. There might be a handful of new gateways opened up around the world in the future, but what we have is about as big as it's ever going to be. You guys are worried about losing flying to DHL to destinations that UPS crews would never do in the first place. I'm talking about flying to eastern Europe, Africa and other remote locations around the world. These areas are where DHL excels. UPS will never have the volume to dedicate putting a browntail aircraft to those destinations, so it's a mute point. UPS could very well utilize DHL contracted lift to service those areas which UPS now uses common carriage or block space sub-load lift.
You UPS guys need to read article 1 of the contract. We are guaranteed ALL the international flying that we are currently doing. UPS and their lawyers have already acknowledged this and said that there will be no using DHL at the expense of IPA crews. I know that your paranoia and general distrust of UPS management is well founded, but you guys are really making more out of this than what it is. DHL is simply switching contractors for it's N. American air lift. Over half our flying is now international. Do you really expect UPS to shrink to less than half it's size? You guys seem to think that we will just hand over half our aircraft and all our long range aircraft to DHL.
#16
You're paranoia is getting the best of you. Even before the DHL deal was announced the entire UPS global air network of browntail flying was about as big as it was going to get as far as destinations served. There might be a handful of new gateways opened up around the world in the future, but what we have is about as big as it's ever going to be. You guys are worried about losing flying to DHL to destinations that UPS crews would never do in the first place. I'm talking about flying to eastern Europe, Africa and other remote locations around the world. These areas are where DHL excels. UPS will never have the volume to dedicate putting a browntail aircraft to those destinations, so it's a mute point. UPS could very well utilize DHL contracted lift to service those areas which UPS now uses common carriage or block space sub-load lift.
You UPS guys need to read article 1 of the contract. We are guaranteed ALL the international flying that we are currently doing. UPS and their lawyers have already acknowledged this and said that there will be no using DHL at the expense of IPA crews. I know that your paranoia and general distrust of UPS management is well founded, but you guys are really making more out of this than what it is. DHL is simply switching contractors for it's N. American air lift. Over half our flying is now international. Do you really expect UPS to shrink to less than half it's size? You guys seem to think that we will just hand over half our aircraft and all our long range aircraft to DHL.
You UPS guys need to read article 1 of the contract. We are guaranteed ALL the international flying that we are currently doing. UPS and their lawyers have already acknowledged this and said that there will be no using DHL at the expense of IPA crews. I know that your paranoia and general distrust of UPS management is well founded, but you guys are really making more out of this than what it is. DHL is simply switching contractors for it's N. American air lift. Over half our flying is now international. Do you really expect UPS to shrink to less than half it's size? You guys seem to think that we will just hand over half our aircraft and all our long range aircraft to DHL.
#17
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 33
DHL came to UPS for a solution to their massive problems - not the other way around.
To think that DHL is setting conditions for UPS is funny. UPS and FedEx could just let them wither on the vine and die. UPS is in the drivers seat for sure.
The ABX and Astar guys are just hoping that misery will have a little company, but the fact is that just because they are about to be out of a job, doesn't mean UPS pilots will be too. I know they would like to see it, but alas, it isn't true just because they hope it is.
Sorry guys. You made a bad decision to work for an unstable company like Astar or ABX, and as much as you'd like to spread the doom and gloom around, you're just wasting time on a message board that could be better served working on resumes.
To think that DHL is setting conditions for UPS is funny. UPS and FedEx could just let them wither on the vine and die. UPS is in the drivers seat for sure.
The ABX and Astar guys are just hoping that misery will have a little company, but the fact is that just because they are about to be out of a job, doesn't mean UPS pilots will be too. I know they would like to see it, but alas, it isn't true just because they hope it is.
Sorry guys. You made a bad decision to work for an unstable company like Astar or ABX, and as much as you'd like to spread the doom and gloom around, you're just wasting time on a message board that could be better served working on resumes.
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
DHL came to UPS for a solution to their massive problems - not the other way around.
To think that DHL is setting conditions for UPS is funny. UPS and FedEx could just let them wither on the vine and die. UPS is in the drivers seat for sure.
The ABX and Astar guys are just hoping that misery will have a little company, but the fact is that just because they are about to be out of a job, doesn't mean UPS pilots will be too. I know they would like to see it, but alas, it isn't true just because they hope it is.
Sorry guys. You made a bad decision to work for an unstable company like Astar or ABX, and as much as you'd like to spread the doom and gloom around, you're just wasting time on a message board that could be better served working on resumes.
To think that DHL is setting conditions for UPS is funny. UPS and FedEx could just let them wither on the vine and die. UPS is in the drivers seat for sure.
The ABX and Astar guys are just hoping that misery will have a little company, but the fact is that just because they are about to be out of a job, doesn't mean UPS pilots will be too. I know they would like to see it, but alas, it isn't true just because they hope it is.
Sorry guys. You made a bad decision to work for an unstable company like Astar or ABX, and as much as you'd like to spread the doom and gloom around, you're just wasting time on a message board that could be better served working on resumes.
I'm not talking tomorrow or the next year, however 5 years from now I can see us resurrecting this thread all over again when totally out of the blue there's an announcement of UPS outsourcing some flying to DHL. I might be wrong and I sincerely hope that I’m wrong but it'll be years before we know that for sure.
As far as Abx and Astar guys/gals making the "wrong decision" - I think that's very unfair of you to say because many of those pilots applied to numerous airlines and ended up going to the one that called them first. Many waited for years to be called by UPS or Fedex but the call never came.
Also, many believed in what their management was telling them - their jobs were safe and there would be huge growth in the future.
Of course, Fly-by-cable says that our jobs are safe so I'm sure we'll be fine, right?...