This thread is NOT about politics. NOT FDX. No Disgruntled Pairings.
#1
This thread is NOT about politics. NOT FDX. No Disgruntled Pairings.
But let’s just say on Thursday, an un-named candidate for President visited ILN, and called for Congressional hearings into the DHL/UPS deal.
If we get those hearings, maybe we can discover how DPWN’s Express division (DHL) can make 2 billion USD profit in 2007, yet claim to have lost a billion in the US. How they can buy Airborne Express, a profitable company for like 50 years, then 3 years later tell everybody they’re losing a billion, so we've gotta move it over to UPS
Maybe they’ll ask Rep. Mike Turner’s question:
“Rewind to just five years ago and you will find DHL operating at the Cincinnati-Northern Kentucky airport, Emery Worldwide operating at the Dayton airport, and Airborne Express operating in Wilmington.….. Reportedly, Emery and Airborne operated profitably with DHL operating with minimal losses.
Five years ago, if UPS and DHL had announced the formation of a strategic alliance that would include the acquisition of Emery and Airborne and the consolidation of all four companies' U.S. operations, antitrust alarms would be blaring. Certainly, this new transaction needs to be viewed in light of the possibility that the acquisitions of Emery and Airborne were steps one and two of a stepped transaction. Perhaps, the UPS-DHL combination is step three.”
Has there been a systematic elimination of all smaller express carriers in the US? Maybe, maybe not. But it might be fun to find out.
If we get those hearings, maybe we can discover how DPWN’s Express division (DHL) can make 2 billion USD profit in 2007, yet claim to have lost a billion in the US. How they can buy Airborne Express, a profitable company for like 50 years, then 3 years later tell everybody they’re losing a billion, so we've gotta move it over to UPS
Maybe they’ll ask Rep. Mike Turner’s question:
“Rewind to just five years ago and you will find DHL operating at the Cincinnati-Northern Kentucky airport, Emery Worldwide operating at the Dayton airport, and Airborne Express operating in Wilmington.….. Reportedly, Emery and Airborne operated profitably with DHL operating with minimal losses.
Five years ago, if UPS and DHL had announced the formation of a strategic alliance that would include the acquisition of Emery and Airborne and the consolidation of all four companies' U.S. operations, antitrust alarms would be blaring. Certainly, this new transaction needs to be viewed in light of the possibility that the acquisitions of Emery and Airborne were steps one and two of a stepped transaction. Perhaps, the UPS-DHL combination is step three.”
Has there been a systematic elimination of all smaller express carriers in the US? Maybe, maybe not. But it might be fun to find out.
#2
But let’s just say on Thursday, an un-named candidate for President visited ILN, and called for Congressional hearings into the DHL/UPS deal.
If we get those hearings, maybe we can discover how DPWN’s Express division (DHL) can make 2 billion USD profit in 2007, yet claim to have lost a billion in the US. How they can buy Airborne Express, a profitable company for like 50 years, then 3 years later tell everybody they’re losing a billion, so we've gotta move it over to UPS
Maybe they’ll ask Rep. Mike Turner’s question:
“Rewind to just five years ago and you will find DHL operating at the Cincinnati-Northern Kentucky airport, Emery Worldwide operating at the Dayton airport, and Airborne Express operating in Wilmington.….. Reportedly, Emery and Airborne operated profitably with DHL operating with minimal losses.
Five years ago, if UPS and DHL had announced the formation of a strategic alliance that would include the acquisition of Emery and Airborne and the consolidation of all four companies' U.S. operations, antitrust alarms would be blaring. Certainly, this new transaction needs to be viewed in light of the possibility that the acquisitions of Emery and Airborne were steps one and two of a stepped transaction. Perhaps, the UPS-DHL combination is step three.”
Has there been a systematic elimination of all smaller express carriers in the US? Maybe, maybe not. But it might be fun to find out.
If we get those hearings, maybe we can discover how DPWN’s Express division (DHL) can make 2 billion USD profit in 2007, yet claim to have lost a billion in the US. How they can buy Airborne Express, a profitable company for like 50 years, then 3 years later tell everybody they’re losing a billion, so we've gotta move it over to UPS
Maybe they’ll ask Rep. Mike Turner’s question:
“Rewind to just five years ago and you will find DHL operating at the Cincinnati-Northern Kentucky airport, Emery Worldwide operating at the Dayton airport, and Airborne Express operating in Wilmington.….. Reportedly, Emery and Airborne operated profitably with DHL operating with minimal losses.
Five years ago, if UPS and DHL had announced the formation of a strategic alliance that would include the acquisition of Emery and Airborne and the consolidation of all four companies' U.S. operations, antitrust alarms would be blaring. Certainly, this new transaction needs to be viewed in light of the possibility that the acquisitions of Emery and Airborne were steps one and two of a stepped transaction. Perhaps, the UPS-DHL combination is step three.”
Has there been a systematic elimination of all smaller express carriers in the US? Maybe, maybe not. But it might be fun to find out.
How does that mesh with your anti-trust conspiracy theory?
Unlike passenger airlines, the package delivery business requires huge upfront capital investments in infrastructure-DHL has not made those investments and has not been competitive in the market.
You make the argument that DHL has suffered no loss in the US market-this is just false. Both the US and German governments accept their accounting and financial statements as correct and they are independently audited by an outside accounting firm.
Just as a side note, do you know what other cargo airline DHL holds a 49% stake in?
Last edited by jungle; 08-08-2008 at 11:29 AM.
#3
Retired Doug herder
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Former DC8 73 Capt DHLAirways/Astar. Retired
Posts: 424
Well, they are almost full owners of Blue Dart in India, are working on buying controlling interest in Air Hong Kong of which they currently own almost half (the A300-600F operator) own all of EAT and DHL Air (the European lift) half of Aerologic (the new B777F operation in LEJ) and 49% of Astar and Polar. The only ones they don't own either half or all of is ABX Air, and various small feeder operators. So the contention made by some that DHL is not directly involved in airline ownership is incorrect.
#4
Polar
#5
Well, they are almost full owners of Blue Dart in India, are working on buying controlling interest in Air Hong Kong of which they currently own almost half (the A300-600F operator) own all of EAT and DHL Air (the European lift) half of Aerologic (the new B777F operation in LEJ) and 49% of Astar and Polar. The only ones they don't own either half or all of is ABX Air, and various small feeder operators. So the contention made by some that DHL is not directly involved in airline ownership is incorrect.
GM lost 15 Billion last quarter, do you suppose they are imaginary losses also? Do you suppose a politico can tell them to keep operating the same way they did last year?
DHL has been on a long losing streak in the US market, they need to stop the bleeding, and projected losses are extremely high without changes in their business plan.
For that matter, their losses are projected to be quite high even with the proposed changes.
#6
Deutsche Post Annual Report 2007 - Revenue and earnings performance
I agree with Rep. Turner. I think they bought Airborne with the sole intent of putting it out of the express business. UPS was always in the long range plan.
Watching DHL in ILN the last couple years was like watching a company trying to fail.
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 829
It isn't necessarily only about cooking the books. Didn't some passenger carrier make some bad moves in the recent past, ostensibly to make a merger approval look that much more appealing? But then when the merger did not happen, they were in worse shape than when they started.
By the way, it isn't about the gov't trying to influence the market. It is about the gov't enforcing its laws. What happens to the market is secondary unless it is a matter of national security / stabilizing the economy / etc. If there was an attempt to skirt US law, then the law needs to be enforced - the ends do not justify the means.
By the way, it isn't about the gov't trying to influence the market. It is about the gov't enforcing its laws. What happens to the market is secondary unless it is a matter of national security / stabilizing the economy / etc. If there was an attempt to skirt US law, then the law needs to be enforced - the ends do not justify the means.
#8
Retired Doug herder
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Former DC8 73 Capt DHLAirways/Astar. Retired
Posts: 424
Correct. They own large stakes in other airlines involved in cargo operations. The presumption that US politics can control their desire or ability to stay in a given market is where your argument goes astray.
GM lost 15 Billion last quarter, do you suppose they are imaginary losses also? Do you suppose a politico can tell them to keep operating the same way they did last year?
DHL has been on a long losing streak in the US market, they need to stop the bleeding, and projected losses are extremely high without changes in their business plan.
For that matter, their losses are projected to be quite high even with the proposed changes.
GM lost 15 Billion last quarter, do you suppose they are imaginary losses also? Do you suppose a politico can tell them to keep operating the same way they did last year?
DHL has been on a long losing streak in the US market, they need to stop the bleeding, and projected losses are extremely high without changes in their business plan.
For that matter, their losses are projected to be quite high even with the proposed changes.
#9
penguin22,
I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire, but the "political candidate" that you refer to is the same one that got you guys into this predicament. Yes, that is right. The presumed Rep. nominee is the same guy that relaxed rules so that Deutsche Post could expand here, and now he is going to go to bat for you? Where was he before? IF Deutsche Post is the "enemy", why would you support the man who helped allow them to come here?
McCain calls for probe of company he once aided | Nation/World News from AP | Star-Telegram.com
I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire, but the "political candidate" that you refer to is the same one that got you guys into this predicament. Yes, that is right. The presumed Rep. nominee is the same guy that relaxed rules so that Deutsche Post could expand here, and now he is going to go to bat for you? Where was he before? IF Deutsche Post is the "enemy", why would you support the man who helped allow them to come here?
McCain calls for probe of company he once aided | Nation/World News from AP | Star-Telegram.com
#10
We are going to have to agree to disagree Jungle. With DHL giving up control of the delivery of its product in the US, there are indeed actual anti-trust concerns here. Just because you don't see it, doesn't make it so. As Penguin said, the money shell game has been going on with DPWN/DHL for many years now. Our hope is that these hearings will flush these things into the open. Interesting that UPS spent big dollars lobbying for the DHL/UPS deal to happen: UPS spent more than $1.3M lobbying in 2Q - Forbes.com
One of the foremost problems this country has is that our corporate taxes are the second highest in the world, second only to Japan. The health and well-being of our economy lies in attracting and keeping profitable business in this country. The red herring of anti-trust really won't matter in the end, and DHL will act as it chooses to maintain it's economic health.
It is easy to say that a master plan of conspiracy has been in the works for years, but when you start looking underneath the rocks all you will find is mismanagement and the natural course of more competitive companies eliminating the less competitive.