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Old 08-10-2008, 07:01 PM   #11  
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They wouldn't need to be placed into UPS's fleet because they will continue to operate for TNT in Europe. These planes are operated by different companies in the EU, and are probably operated more efficiently than UPS could operate them.

I would doubt any of their flying would go to the IPA.


I love how everyone assumes our scope clause is for naught...

IPA President Miller Meets with State Department In Advance of Open Skies Discussions

As the U.S. prepares to begin the next round of EU/U.S. ‘Open Skies’ agreements, IPA President Bob Miller and IPA representatives traveled to Washington, D.C. on Tuesday for a meeting with John Byerly, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Transportation Affairs.

Byerly requested the meeting with Miller to hear the IPA’s views on the Open Skies discussions and to layout the framework of agreements that had occurred between the EU and U.S. Byerly also talked about the issues that proved problematic and gave projected timelines for completing stage two of the open skies agreement.

Also attending the discussions were IPA Vice President Bob Brown, IPA Scope and International Affairs consultant Roz Ellingsworth, IPA staff attorney Olga Zhuravliova and Terri Robl, Director, Office of Aviation Negotiations.

As you may recall, Byerly (right) was the U.S. chief civil aviation negotiator for the EU-U.S. ‘Open Skies’ Air Transport Agreement that went into effect on March 30, 2008. The agreement provides substantial benefits for passengers, shippers and the air transport industry on both sides of the Atlantic.

One of the significant benefits for U.S. all cargo airlines has been the right to establish free standing hub operations in eight EU member states, including France and Germany (seventh freedoms).

One of the topics that IPA President Miller brought to Byerly’s attention was the applicability of the Railway Labor Act as it pertains to the establishment of foreign domiciles. You may recall that Pan American Airlines opened a crew base in Germany only to discover their flight attendants' labor agreement did not apply in Germany.

IPA and CAPA are currently working with Congress to develop legislation that would allow for labor union contracts to apply in foreign domiciles. Byerly said he understood the IPA’s position and found it relevant for any negotiations.

Miller called the meeting productive and beneficial to both sides and said that Byerly seemed to appreciate of the IPA’s input and opened the door for future discussions between the IPA and State Dept.

“It’s important that the IPA participate in meetings like these so that the leaders who are negotiating the Open Skies agreement know and understand our pilots’ needs as they pertain to the Open Skies. Working closely with government agencies like the State Department will help to ensure our scope clause is not violated,” said Miller.

The second rounds of EU-U.S. Open Skies negotiations is scheduled to begin September 22 in Washington and is expected to take about 18 months, with the tentative implementation date for the Second Stage agreement set for spring of 2010.
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Old 08-10-2008, 07:15 PM   #12  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE View Post
Well, then if you read my post again you'll realize that we're saying the same thing - I did not say they were conspiring against us but simply wanted to make as much money as they can...
I read you post, and an bunch of other posts you put up, we are not saying the same thing.
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:10 PM   #13  
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T

I love how everyone assumes our scope clause is for naught...
Uh, not really, but you guys sure think everyone else's scope clause is meaningless..........
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:49 PM   #14  
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I read you post, and an bunch of other posts you put up, we are not saying the same thing.
Can you be more specific?
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:19 PM   #15  
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Does anyone think the proposed TNT purchase will have any impact on the UPS/DHL deal in the US?
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:28 PM   #16  
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Not as long as DHL is just another customer.

Does TNT even have a presence in the US?
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:38 AM   #17  
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The question now is . Where will UPS open its first overseas Dom, Germany or China? Who would go? What would it pay? How long would you be committed?
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:46 AM   #18  
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MSNBC is reporting there has been no bid for TNT by UPS. UPS says it would devalue the price of our stock.
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:58 AM   #19  
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The question now is . Where will UPS open its first overseas Dom, Germany or China? Who would go? What would it pay? How long would you be committed?
757,

I would think that the same factors that caused FDX to open over seas domiciles will be in play for UPS. Or, in other words it will have to be cheaper for UPS to operate a international domicile than not. Hopefully the FDX guys will jump in with what the triggers were that resulted in their HKG / CDG domiciles. Shooting from the hip I would think the two biggest things would be the cost of airline tickets (business class or better?) and hotel standby (room costs plus per diem) in those places.

The thing the IPA will have to be cognizant of is how the LOA is written. Our FDX bro's have walked this path and there some things to go to school on.

Just my two bits.

Biff
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Old 08-11-2008, 10:02 AM   #20  
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My big thing with the FDX LOA was that they offered a rent subsidy in US Dollars!! I think for anyone working or living in the Euro zone would have to be PAID in EUROS!! And also have the living subsidy also in EUROS! Otherwise the hit in cost of living by being paid in Dollars (even at UPS wages) and living in Euros would be too much for average employee to stomach.

If they want to keep the pay rates and per diem based on the existing contract, then I think an extra cost of living stipend (for both rent and food) of at least $5000 per month (about 3300 Euros a month) would be a bare minimum to start.
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