UPS training/contract question
 

If a front seater hits age 65 and there are no vacancies in the engineer seats, what happens?

I'm sure there is a well known answer to this, but I don't know what it is.

Thanks

WW

Oh, I am so tempted to say something inappropriate.

In the Holiday spirit (and to keep off the Mod's naughty list), I will just let someone else answer this.

Over 65 pilots
 

The same thing that happened when guys hit 60 (before age 65) and there were no engineer vacancies. They still went to the engineer panel, even there was no need for more engineers, no vacancies, and the staffing model did not need more engineers.

This could bode well for the junior guys fearing furlough. If UPS announces a furlough (I am in the camp that truly believes there will be no furloughs) there will be more than just an open-time ban by the union. You will see a huge reverse-age discrimination lawsuit. If UPS was willing to let age 60 pilots go back to the engineer seat when there was no staffing model need for them, but now furlough junior pilots claiming there is an excess of man-power.....well, that just spells lawsuit. At one point in 2006, we had twice as many engineers as captains and FO's on all 3-crew fleets.

Plus, UPS is a company that does not like negative image publicity. Even if the manpower bean counters determine there is an excess of pilots, UPS will not furlough because of the negative publicity from such actions.

Also - did anybody see how much our long-term disability premiums went up!!!! This is due to an overall increase in age of the pilot population ie - age 65). Thanks again fellas!

December 13, 2007 - only 4 more years until back to normal.

Rott

Pilots can go to the back seat IAW the CBA. It is not a matter of UPS "letting" them go back. The process is covered on pages 328 and 329 of the contract.

Thanks Roberto, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

WW

You got to kidding? You want to stay here after you hit 65? GET A LIFE!

Most likely you already went through being a Captain, for lord knows how long. Probably since 1988. Then you stayed here as a FE for three years once you hit age 60. Then you went back to the left seat. Bumping someone out of there seat. Someone who wasn't a captain very long. Now, age 65 is coming and you want to go back to the FE seat.

Not Good.

who are you talking to?

I'm not sure who you are referring to (FYI, I turn 62 in March, and have been at UPS almost 18 years - approx. 6 years each as FE, FO, and CPT). Now as for older FE's, we have a half dozen in their 70's, the oldest born 3/8/1932 <g>. Hopefully, with a Realignment/Vacancy bid possible in February, I will get another 3 years up front.

What about the guys out on medical for 3 yrs, then Age-65 got signed, and OH LORD, IT'S A MIRACLE -- I'M HEALED!!! Back to the front seat they went. Perhaps not a lot of guys statistically, but seriously, abusing disability insurance/Mutual Aid is not even messing with the company -- it's d!cking over your IPA brothers. Pretty poor.

I still think the other shoe drops when AMEs start getting looked at by the feds for who they're giving medicals to. All it's going to take is one or two over-60 guys dying in the seat with resultant publicity and the AME $$$ gravy train is going to be seriously looked at. At that point, we're ALL going to get the jelly finger (sans jelly) so to speak, as to keep it non-discriminatory.

So, it's actually quite possible that pilots working past 60 now are jeopardizing the ability of guys even working TO 60 in the future (ie lose their medicals at 50 because of increased scrutiny). :eek:

If they are doing what they want to then they have gotten a life. :)