From Section 23...Can anyone explain to me what I'm missing here? How are these guys getting around this section of the CBA. There will be no vacancies in the back seat, as there were none prior to age 65 but this section seems to be ignored. Thanks.

2. Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 23.A.1. and B.1., the
following apply to a pilot subject to a regulated age restriction:

a. If the pilot is involuntarily excessed from his current crew
position and, as a result of his restriction, he is ineligible to
be awarded or assigned any other crew position, the pilot
may be furloughed.

b. The pilot may be bypassed on recall from furlough until
there is an available crew position that he is eligible to be
awarded or assigned.

c. A restricted pilot who cannot move to or be accommodated
as a second offi cer from another crew position because
his relative seniority is less than the current population of
second offi cers or there are no second offi cer crew seats,
shall be offered the opportunity to retire as provided in
the Agreement.

Following a pilot’s rejection of the offer,
the pilot shall be released from employment as provided
in Section 22.B.1., and shall not be considered as having
been furloughed in cases where the only crew status the
pilot can occupy is second offi cer.

You are looking in the Furlough Section. I think they are covered by

24E
6. A pilot who has a legal restriction that prohibits him from flying in his current crew status shall be accommodated in another crew status, if any, from which he is not legally restricted consistent with his seniority and standing bid.

Seems to me that they could argue that the company has been doing this for years and that as a result they would have a potential lawsuit as a legal precedent has been set.

"or there are no second officer crew seats" as we're learning that language could be interpreted to mean no seats on property(i.e. no more 72s or 10s)

I wish they'd just go away but I doubt this will matter. So many of these guys just don't have anything else to do and this job makes them feel like they are still being productive and keeps up their self esteem. Sad but true.

Now, of course, there are those guys like a 78 year old United 747-200 Engineer I met back in the late 90s who told me that he would die in his seat so that his ex-wife would not get a penny of his retirement. Don't know what he did after they ran out of Engineer seats. Poor guy could hardly carry his bag down the jetway.

I'm sure we have guys like that here which negates the whole you make as much retired as you do working the panel.

I just wish we could get the 75s faster. The whole 3-2 man thing would be negated by all of the NDs being forced out.

The rest of us have swallowed the 48/60 MBLG deal, what esle could we do, and are trying to spread the word to "do the right thing" and not fly extra so we can unify and save the younger pilots from furlough,; (what goes here a comma or a semi-colon) and we have zombies going to the 727 s/o seat.

Are you guys teasing me? To the censor, "your welcome."

Absolutely ludicrous but, that explains it, no matter how much I read this CBA I'm missing things. Thanks.

But, these pilots have NO legal restriction that prohibit then from flying in their current crew status (10S), their plane is going away, so this paragraph should not be valid.

I was referring to the guys who are forced out of the front seat due to the legal age restriction into the back seat without an opening in the back seat. I didn't write the damn thing, or make the decision on how to apply it, I'm just saying that I believe that this is how they are justifying it. The previous post was quoting out of the furlough section of the contract, which, for now is a mute position. I think that they are claiming that age is their legal restriction.

Peace out brother....:cool:

I'm with you... I thought we were talking about the 65+ers who can't move up front, and they're currently on the back of the 10. I think those are the guys with the A65 in the posting number on the training letter. How are we justifying these guys going to training on the 27S?

So, does that make the 60-65 range ND's, but over 65-ers "Zombies"?

Weren't those guys in the movie "Night of the Living Dead"? :D

No. They're in the sequel, "Flight of the LIving Dead"!!!!:D