parks31

Anyone seen the am out and backs on the 727 that show between 11:00 pm and 1:25 am? Most of these trips will be flown by B reserves. This has happened to me the last two years. After show goc tells you that they have no planes and that you are to just hang out. Last year we had not launched by 8:00 am and we called fatigue. The duty officer preached to us about professionalism and how all those flowers won't be delivered because of us. I told him he had all night to get an A reserve crew to fly it as I had been awake now for 27 hours. He told me that they were holding the A guys and wanted to use the underutilized B reserves. Later my chief pilot called and said that I had been given 8 hours notice and I should have been rested. Only 3 out of 8 crews launched that night. They have no plan to launch as scheduled, just bring em in and hold them. Looks like the same this year. Thanks for letting me vent!!

Adlerdriver

Not that it will help this time but, at least this will have to stop when we go to domestic/flag ops instead of supp.

P.S. Why won't there be aircraft for scheduled o&b pairings in the bid pack?

FDXLAG

Which specific trips are you talking about?

If it is an O&B doesn't the trip have to end withing 4 hours of the original termination time or you or eligible for sub?

The critical duty period would have to play in those trips.

parks31

Look at 276 on 13feb. Four leg am out and back that shows at 11:55 pm and returns a 7:52 am. trip 72 also. I can't remember but what is the longest scheds can keep you on the hook after show time?

Brad4est

4 hours, then Substitution.

Section 25.H.2.b
" Trip Rescheduled Outside 4 Hour Window
The trip is rescheduled to begin more than 4 hours prior to its original showtime or to terminate more than 4 hours after its original termination time. Trips in this category must be offered to the pilot as a reassignment trip prior to the pilot being placed in substitution."

FDXLAG

I don't know, there is a lot of gray area there. I guess they could reschedule the trip so it returned at 11: 52 and be legal. Since you were B reserve I thought they would have to release NLT 4 hours after your reserve period.

a300fr8dog

Critical period is defined by "showtime" between 0100-0459 Local Base Time.

The holding of the crew for a maybe event is nothing less than a manipulation. The 4 hour sub rules are for trips that are "rescheduled", so they just say the trip is going as scheduled, but expect it to be late. FWIW, I played this game once when they said I was on the hook up to scheduled duty limits. When we couldn't finish the trip inside scheduled limits, I insisted they rebuild the pairing to keep us within duty limits. They suddenly cut us loose. I do think it's important to let our guys on Kirby know the exact details of these situations.

Gooch121

During a recent RGS, our SCP indicated the Company wants/plans to operate under both domestic/flag and supp rules. The crews would know which rules apply by looking at the FP/R.

DLax85

Trip 72 is a disputed pairing for Feb.

From the SIG notes:

The only dispute - pairing 72 – is a long out-and-back that technically starts just before the “critical period.” If it were slightly later, it would be illegal for over 9 hrs of duty (MEM-COS-SLC-MEM).

We haven't had any dispusted pairings in a while in the 727 folks --- but let's all stay focused.

Chainsaw

From the SIG notes:

The only dispute - pairing 72 – is a long out-and-back that technically starts just before the “critical period.” If it were slightly later, it would be illegal for over 9 hrs of duty (MEM-COS-SLC-MEM).


So if the trip started later (shorter) it would be illegal. That makes no sense whatsover, even though he is correct. The letter of the law may be present but the intent (of the critical period) was raped and left for dead on the side of highway. If you need a better graphic, I can provide it for you.