RedTail130

Fellas, after leaving the Air Force due to spending time either deployed or getting ready for staff, I took a job as an engineer. Now after having been out for a year, I'm dying to get back to flying and am looking at the cargo carriers because I don't really want to deal with passengers if I don't have to.

I know that FEDEX cutback flight hours and UPS is talking about furloughs, but what is life like for them really? I know FEDEX has two week reserves and I'm wondering if UPS has something similar. Basically though, what are your impressions of working for them? How often do you fly, how often do you fly on reserve, what's the scheduling procedure?

Thank you.
-Erik

skypine27

I'm not trying to be a prick BUT....

Your question shows a lack of SA. I remember a time back in early 2002, when someone was on Flight Info asking about updating the United scan-tron form. You're question bares a remarkable semblance to that one.

Neither FedEx or UPS is going to be hiring for a long time. The questions you're asking are probably going to have different answers in 2012, so I wouldn't worry about this sh*t now. I flew for 4 different pax carriers before FedEx and somethings are better, and some things are worse. But again, thats now, and not years from now, when you might be interviewed.

Your best bet is to call some buds who work for whatever carrier you might be interested in and ask them what they think (a couple of years from now).

It's going to be a long time before either one is hiring.

Sniper

This is totally dependent on a large variety of factors, some of which are in your control, some which are not.

Seniority is obviously a big one, but seniority is only a relative factor, as your overall seniority in the company is not nearly as relevant as your seniority in base, in equipment, and in seat, and even in 'status' (CA's on the DC-10 in MEM who commute, for example). Seniority determines what you fly, when you fly, who you fly with, where you're based, when you vacation, and how much $ you make, etc. - it's everything in civilian flying (in the US).

Your equipment is a big one too. While the airline as a whole may be staffed in one manner, if your particular equipment is understaffed, you will fly more and get called out to fly on reserve more often. Reserve usage is due to: staffing, equipment, time of day, time of month, time of year, weather patterns, contractual rules, and even the mood of the particular scheduler!

Personal choice is also applicable here: do you WANT to fly a lot? Many military aviators find the ability to control their work schedule to be a factor that appeals to them, though one they didn't originally consider as a factor in choosing civilian flying. If you want to fly, you'll be able to. If you don't want to, your ability to successfully pull this off is dependent upon equipment (long haul guys may have to go out for longer to stay current on their landings, while short haul guys can get current in 1-2 days, especially if they're the CA, who determines ultimately who will get the landing - if the CA needs the landing he will get it, and you as the FO will go to the sim to get current) and all the other factors mentioned prior.

A good deal of this is also dependent on the pilot group. Some companies have elaborate trip trading systems, allowing everyone who chooses to participate to 'tweak' their schedule - others do not allow these systems, or the pilot group doesn't participate in them, rendering them useless. Usually, the larger the carrier, the more elaborate the system. This also means that there will be a certain subset of pilots (often the same guys who post on web boards, I've found) who will spend the extra effort to gain any advantage possible over their fellow pilots, usually though a mastering of the arcane computer procedures that determine scheduling. Some Fed Ex pilots have mastered parts of their systems so well that, at times, the company could/can put a flight out for bid, and guys have a program on their computer or cell phone that can either alert them to the opportunity, or perhaps even bid it for them while they sleep! 'It's taken before you even had a chance to see it' would be what many would say - but everyone has the same ability to bid this way, so . . . you either play the game, or accept that you'll miss out on some opportunities.

In the end, you would be best served talking to your former squadron buddies now flying for various carriers, as well as just trolling the forums and reading. Your buddies will most resemble you (similar background, similar feelings, etc), and thus most likely be able to speak to what is important to you and your family. This site is particularly informative about Fed Ex and UPS, while PPRuNe is likely your best source of Cathay info (Cathay operates a bit differently from US carriers). Don't limit yourself to just UPS, Fed Ex, and Cathay, but consider options with other carriers. World, Atlas/Polar, and the passenger carriers are all thought of as career destinations by most pilots in the US, and there are some great contract flying gigs out there too - each carrier has certain traits that may make it best for an individual pilot.

Nobody in the US is hiring right now, and the junior guy on reserve will be your future once you do get on with a carrier - probably not going to see hiring until 2010 at the earliest anywhere, but none of us really know the future.

Sorry for the length, and good luck.

GoldenGoose

The worst airline job is better than the best freight job any day of the week.

Can you picture walking across a snowy and windy ramp as a senior Captain while trying to dodge forklifts? Then climbing a flimsy ladder to reach the cockpit. Working all night for a week at a time.

Please. The pay is better now, but anybody who is honest will tell you that the job sucks.

Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.

CactusCrew

I can say this about UPS, plain and simple ..

Its the best job I have ever had... for the worst employer I have ever worked for.

Think about that !

Airbum

Lots of truth in this statement. The night shift is not fun.

FliFast

After 15 years of flying for the passenger airlines and 4 years of flying freight/cargo in all three seats, I'll take flying at UPS hands down. Although my opinion may be recently skewed by the furloughs overshadowing the work life at UPS, it beats the drama of large crews, the arrogance of management and their lust for bonuses, the stupidity of passengers, the slim margin of profit for airlines, respresentation by ALPA, and the feeling that my paycheck should subsidize cheap tickets.

The downside to UPS, is the lack of PART 121 airline experience in both managment and in line operations and the feeling that we are corporate pilots for a trucking company.

Just my two cents worth...your mileage may vary,

-FF-

Slice

I'll take my job at Brown over any pax job out there, btdt. Boxes don't *****. The commute to ANC sucks but I don't sit the sort.

gderek

With all due respect, where did you work?

There is no doubt that the cargo flying is not glamorous and certainly the night flying can be a challenge. But as a junior guy at FedEx I can manage to get a good amount of day flying and a great quality of life. I can drop or trade trips. I get to smile from my paid F class seat when I'm deadheading to work as the crew deals with some irate passenger.

I always thought that the pax flying was the way to go, but then I was fortunate enough to get a job here. Would you take stripping down at terminal security or a quick bag scan and walk to your airplane?

At any rate, the most important thing is that you're happy where you are.

And regarding the thread, i'd agree call your buds. The schedules here run the gamut. You can almost do any kind of flying you want with the right seniority.

oldfr8dog

Hey, whatever blows your skirt up. I fly freight and wouldn't want to be in the pax business. I may have to deal with walking across a snowy ramp, but at least I'm not stuck behind a locked armor-plated door for hours except when I can get the flight attendant to guard it so I can go to the urinarium.

Seriously though, I sort'a agree with you about domestic night freight flying, it sucks unless you're laying over where you live. International is a completely different ballgame, though. I usually fly long block int'l trips, roughly two weeks on, two weeks off. The weeks away get kinda long, but through bidding, if you can hold the schedules, you can turn the time off into some serious time away from work, if that's what you're into. I am. The intra theatre stuff, Europe and Asia is a lot of night flying, but the layovers are usually longer than the domestic guys get.

All that being said, this whole discussion is purely academic for someone just thinking about getting on with UPS or FedEx because nobody's going to get hired at either carrier for a long time.