FDX - Cancel part of 09-02 but not 09-03
04-02-2009, 05:36 PM
#1
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FDX - Cancel part of 09-02 but not 09-03
Has anyone considered whether or not the company could cancel large parts of 09-02 but keep the meat of 09-03?
This would allow the company to eliminate parts that were never intended but necessary to schedule so the right pilots would move to SO in 09-03. Contractual limitations would apply, but couldn't the company cancel most training into certain seats in 09-02 while aggressively training those going to 727 SO in subsequent bids?
What's the purpose you say? 09-02 set up 09-03 so folks would be forced into the cheap seat. Without 09-02 you couldn't have 09-03 turn out the way they wanted. But once 09-03 is finalized managers will not want some of 09-02s results. I predict big delays if not cancellation of some awards. But I predict SO training to ramp up big time.
What do YOU think?
This would allow the company to eliminate parts that were never intended but necessary to schedule so the right pilots would move to SO in 09-03. Contractual limitations would apply, but couldn't the company cancel most training into certain seats in 09-02 while aggressively training those going to 727 SO in subsequent bids?
What's the purpose you say? 09-02 set up 09-03 so folks would be forced into the cheap seat. Without 09-02 you couldn't have 09-03 turn out the way they wanted. But once 09-03 is finalized managers will not want some of 09-02s results. I predict big delays if not cancellation of some awards. But I predict SO training to ramp up big time.
What do YOU think?
04-02-2009, 07:44 PM
#2
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Posts: 318
I don't see how, but never say never
I don't see how they could do that. It's a real house of cards if they do, but after seeing how they've used 4a2b--I guess nothing would be too over the top. Does the contract even allow for cnx part of a bid? I don't think it does. I could see them cnx both though.
Also, if they were going to use the F-word, why would they move all those pilots to and from ANC and retrain in all those seats? Why wouldn't they just f-word and then play musical chairs with eveyones life (obviously I don't think anyone is in favor of that). Some think it's a push to get HKG filled. They seem to spend 2 bucks here to save 1 buck there. Must be different pots of money.
Also, if they were going to use the F-word, why would they move all those pilots to and from ANC and retrain in all those seats? Why wouldn't they just f-word and then play musical chairs with eveyones life (obviously I don't think anyone is in favor of that). Some think it's a push to get HKG filled. They seem to spend 2 bucks here to save 1 buck there. Must be different pots of money.
04-02-2009, 07:51 PM
#3
...Whatever It Is!
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Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by Gunter
Has anyone considered whether or not the company could cancel large parts of 09-02 but keep the meat of 09-03?
This would allow the company to eliminate parts that were never intended but necessary to schedule so the right pilots would move to SO in 09-03. Contractual limitations would apply, but couldn't the company cancel most training into certain seats in 09-02 while aggressively training those going to 727 SO in subsequent bids?
What's the purpose you say? 09-02 set up 09-03 so folks would be forced into the cheap seat. Without 09-02 you couldn't have 09-03 turn out the way they wanted. But once 09-03 is finalized managers will not want some of 09-02s results. I predict big delays if not cancellation of some awards. But I predict SO training to ramp up big time.
What do YOU think?
This would allow the company to eliminate parts that were never intended but necessary to schedule so the right pilots would move to SO in 09-03. Contractual limitations would apply, but couldn't the company cancel most training into certain seats in 09-02 while aggressively training those going to 727 SO in subsequent bids?
What's the purpose you say? 09-02 set up 09-03 so folks would be forced into the cheap seat. Without 09-02 you couldn't have 09-03 turn out the way they wanted. But once 09-03 is finalized managers will not want some of 09-02s results. I predict big delays if not cancellation of some awards. But I predict SO training to ramp up big time.
What do YOU think?
04-02-2009, 07:55 PM
#4
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Interesting thought.
If that were to happen, you'd want to make sure you had bid the high paying seats on -03 ahead of what you expect to hold. That way, if they canceled part of -02 and left a junior guy in one of those seats, you'd have a grievance for POP.
If that were to happen, you'd want to make sure you had bid the high paying seats on -03 ahead of what you expect to hold. That way, if they canceled part of -02 and left a junior guy in one of those seats, you'd have a grievance for POP.
Last edited by MX727; 04-02-2009 at 08:16 PM.
04-02-2009, 07:58 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by MX727
Interesting thought.
In that were to happen, you'd want to make sure you had bid the high paying seats on -03 ahead of what you expect to hold. That way, if they canceled part of -02 and left a junior guy in one of those seats, you'd have a grievance for POP.
In that were to happen, you'd want to make sure you had bid the high paying seats on -03 ahead of what you expect to hold. That way, if they canceled part of -02 and left a junior guy in one of those seats, you'd have a grievance for POP.
Beat me to that one! I was just about to say the same!
04-03-2009, 03:20 AM
#6
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD11 CRA
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Anyone else think 09-01 may be totally canceled as well if they get the results they want on -02 and -03? That way no one get's POP for HKG Capt from -02 and -03 and they can go with -04 to try and fill the remaining HKG F/O seats....again. (Which reminds me..since DW thought HKG Capt was going to go so senior and be such a good deal..think he will bid it instead of the 777?) What do they say in Vegas..the House always wins? Anyway I'll admit to not knowing all the ins and outs of such a move so if the contract prohibits this feel free to correct me..
04-03-2009, 04:49 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by MX727
Interesting thought.
If that were to happen, you'd want to make sure you had bid the high paying seats on -03 ahead of what you expect to hold. That way, if they canceled part of -02 and left a junior guy in one of those seats, you'd have a grievance for POP.
If that were to happen, you'd want to make sure you had bid the high paying seats on -03 ahead of what you expect to hold. That way, if they canceled part of -02 and left a junior guy in one of those seats, you'd have a grievance for POP.
If you are bidding for POP why should your standing bid change any for 9-01, 9-02, or 9-0X. I would think you would have the same bid to protect your POP.
If you are biding what you want to fly I wouldn't think your standing bid would change much either. Other than the guys who started this year at 50% in ANC and may now be 90%.
The way I see this bid ending is with a big stink as all those 75 F/O bid 72 F/O on the way to the back seat. That means almost every current 72 F/O has the opportunity to bid to relieve before they force one guy to the back.
They will get the seniority list in order. Everyone will get one training date. But anyone senior to the HKG low man will have a shot at POP if they want it. My question is: Does a guy on the VTL from 09-02 stay above a more senior guy on 09-03?
For the record let me say, we were idiots for agreeing to the VTL. But since there was nothing in it for wide body capts I can see why we gave it up (ALPA Standard).
04-03-2009, 04:52 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by FreightDawgyDog
Anyone else think 09-01 may be totally canceled as well if they get the results they want on -02 and -03? That way no one get's POP for HKG Capt from -02 and -03 and they can go with -04 to try and fill the remaining HKG F/O seats....again. (Which reminds me..since DW thought HKG Capt was going to go so senior and be such a good deal..think he will bid it instead of the 777?) What do they say in Vegas..the House always wins? Anyway I'll admit to not knowing all the ins and outs of such a move so if the contract prohibits this feel free to correct me..
04-03-2009, 05:28 AM
#9
Trust but Verify!!
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD11 CRA
Posts: 684
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
Yes, the 09-01 HKG Capt vacency will be canceled. They have already stated that could happen. But anyone on -02, -03, or -0X who bid to relieve had the chance to be eligible for POP anyways.
04-03-2009, 05:33 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by FreightDawgyDog
I guess my thought was many would not bid HKG Capt on an excess for POP due to the fact that there are 20 more slots available on 09-01 and they might have to go instead of just get the POP. Again, not sure of all the ins and outs but it seems like a pretty good strategy for the company to keep POP only bidders out of HKG Capt on the excesses if they planned to cancel the extra 20 09-01 CPT slots after the excess bids close and they have everyone where they want. If I recall, some here talked about gaming the excesses for HKG POP pay in this way on an earlier thread.
They would have to keep HKG Capt as numero uno under the pop rules right? Whether it is an excess or a vacency bid. 09-02 has already closed and they got their 20 capts (I think).
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