SaltyDog

The whole contract is a 'negotiation', it never ends. UPS violates the contract daily. IPA must 'negotiate'/'grieve'/'discuss'/'talk with' the company. Your simple statements imply a good chest thumping, feel better approach, much like a temper tantrum, but lack real understanding of what it takes to defend the CBA.

EB wasn't/isn't 'renegotiating' anything in the contract regarding this furlough event UPS brought up.

You clearly believe they are, again you are demonstrating a complete lack process knowledge and how we achieve any success on behalf of the IPA crews. You do make UPS labor grin like a cat though with your posts.
That is factual.

SLPII

I am sorry you completely missed my point. Let me be clearer.

If the company wants us to take concessions, and the furlough is only a threat to make this happen...why is the EB even wasting its time (and our time with surveys) when they know wholeheartedly that UPS will just ignore it?

I am new here, but every other senior guy I fly say this company does not want inputs from labor..Why is it now that they suddenly want our inputs?

My original response to CACTUSCREW was only in acknowledgment that the furlough threat is only a tool to get us negotiate mid-term. If this is what you believe we should be doing then I sure hope you're not an EB member.

You did say that the contract is always in "negotiation". that statement does scare me a little about your philosophy.

say that again

Be careful with that one. I fear that there may be a few "hidden suggestions" that will be contrary to or in direct violation of current book. Whatever comes out, make sure we read it thoroughly.

SaltyDog

SLPII,
Let me be clear. 1.I am not an EB member. 2. We are probably alot closer in thought than you think. 3. I may have missed your point, semantics perhaps?
I agree that UPS was/is fishing for a mid term or probing for the 2012 openers. However, the furlough threat is not idle. The best strategy is to engage and discuss better, more readily accepted industry options. I call this a 'negotiation. Doesn't mean I want the negotiation to settle on the CBA and giving anything up, it is a negotiation to get the company to look at and consider an alternative to their stated goal of furlough = $54 million in annual savings. Let's negotiate early retirements that give CBA+ benefits to get people to consider retirement, etc. That is not detrimental to our CBA. I think it enhances future language in a CBA that moves the field in our advantage next round in 2012.
So I say we are in constant 'negotiation' Why? Every day, UPS violates the contract. The reality is 80%+ of the membership doesn't even file a grievance. 20% file a grievance and UPS tactic is to grind down the 20% by not acting or simply saying 'in compliance'. We must 'negotiate' a resolution. The UPS goal: Get the 20% to not file a grievance next time in utter despair and anger. Hopefully by having them blame the IPA for the reason no resolution.
We get record grievances filed, sadly, that is only a fraction. Our CBA is under siege. It takes 100% of us (OK 97%) to understand the contract and take it upon ourselves to adhere to the CBA. The grievance process will negotiate the resolution to protect our CBA language, Why do you think we have 'deadlocks'? It is because the negotiation stopped or could proceed no further without giving up the M&I. EB opted to take some to arbitration. That is a negotiation with our CBA. If we didn't negotiate, UPS would run roughshod even more. Semantics perhaps, but we must 'negotiate' to protect opur CBA language or UPS will ignore and continue violations at will. Secondly, we are working to steer the CBA into a better position next round in 2012. Guess what, you need to wage a campaign via grievance to get a better CBA next time. UPS simply will run the perimeter if we don't engage them.
Lastly, your bitterness, keep it on the company side. Being divisive with the senior folks that brought us pretty decent contracts from UPS over the years simply ignores the horrible conditions UPS preferred we have when the airline started. Ever think that UPS might just put a 64 year old back in the front instead of bypass pay just to break us into multiple, divided groups? More than money, they love and crave absolute control as Say that Again clearly understands.
Fraternally my friend.

L'il J.Seinfeld

Stated like a commuter who is not in a position to pick up OT/JA.

Squeegee man

Why would anyone think that UPS cares what the IPA thinks?
UPS is going to furlough a bunch of pilots. That's a fact. Everybody that is about to get furloughed, just accept it and plan on another occupation for a couple of years. It's not the end of the world.

There are plenty of ways to make $$ if you get furloughed from UPS. You can be a squeegee man at the traffic lights. You can play five-card monty in the back alley. You can beg for money on the corner of Northern Lights and Minnesota. You can work up on the slope for the oil company. You can ***** your woman out on craigslist. Etc.

There is plenty to do while UPS makes billions and your IPA brothers are conflict bidding and calling out sick for trips so they can extend their round the world cruises and vacations to Europe.

Life is a beotch, and someday you will be senior. Just remember this always - nobody gives a crap about you!

Squeegee man

Some old crusty bids a front seat hoping to get bypassed, but UPS decides to train him and make his sorry butt work for his money, and you think it is some conspiracy by UPS to divide the group.
I'm glad that UPS decided to train this dead weight, because from what I heard, some of them couldn't get through training.
So UPS is bad for awarding some guy what he bid and can hold by seniority? Sorry, not buying it.

Buck92

I found out from a guy I flew with yesterday that they're training someone on the 'bus this summer who turns 65 in DECEMBER...this DECEMBER!

SaltyDog

UPS was very explicit that they were going to train the over 60's. No mystery on the bypass. They knew they were going to go to training. The urban legend of they couldn't make it through is good though.
UPS figured get what they pay for, but they have scrapped a long held policy to get the over 63 folks in the front seat, and it is good to throw the grenade at the rest of us pure gravy to rub it in. I'm not taking the bait.Welcome aboard to posting.

Roberto

It is worse than that. He doesn't start school until 7/23, and he has 5 weeks of vacation yet to use (which, as a senior guy, will give him about 10 weeks off)... He turns 65 12/24. Completing training will give him 6 months pay as a Captain (he is currently an FO).