MD-11 safety
03-30-2009, 08:21 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: FDX MD11 Capt in MEM
Posts: 885
This guy has an agenda. It's called the anti-union agenda. Check out the home page if his website: Airline Safety Home Page, Airlines News, Airline unions, ALPA arrogance, Frederick Dubinsky, Roger Hall, Union featherbedding, Islamofascist terrorism, Aviation News, Airline accidents
I'm not impressed.
Also, He doesn't appear to have any MD11/MD10 info after 1999.
I'm not impressed.
Also, He doesn't appear to have any MD11/MD10 info after 1999.
03-30-2009, 01:41 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 498
I'm just curious, but aren't all the gear collapse and/or gear collapse with wing breakage all on the MD? I mean both the MD-10 and/or MD-11. I thought I remember hearing after the MEM gear collapse that during the conversion from DC to MD the gear was changed or modified. If so I would seem possibly to be a trend item.
As I think the process through. Hard landing followed be either collapsing gear or collapsing gear with broken wing at gear attach points. From that point on it's just pure aerodynamics. A plane with only one wing (remember the MD with the wing snapped at the gear is a very short wing root). Coupled with a high elevation off the ground when lightweight (landing weight) and the MD sits very high off the ground. The aircraft will now have all the lift being generated from one wing while the aircraft is still at flying speed. The full length wing will rise rapidly but on the other side there is basically nothing to keep the aircraft from rolling over. The engine is gone and roughly the short portion of the wing remaining is shorter then the distance from the belly to the ground. On most other aircraft they do not have a center gear. The center gear will keep the aircraft from settling to the ground on it's belly when the outside gear collapses. Instead, the aircraft is still sitting at full height above the ground with a massive spinning moment arm. I don't see any reason the aircraft wouldn't roll over.
There have been many DC-10-10 and -30 hard landings over the years. I've sat through many and created several my self. I don't ever remember the gear collapsing. Or the wing snapping. The only thing close is Sioux City and they didn't have the center gear down and they didn't roll over in the same manner.
Just things that made me think.
As I think the process through. Hard landing followed be either collapsing gear or collapsing gear with broken wing at gear attach points. From that point on it's just pure aerodynamics. A plane with only one wing (remember the MD with the wing snapped at the gear is a very short wing root). Coupled with a high elevation off the ground when lightweight (landing weight) and the MD sits very high off the ground. The aircraft will now have all the lift being generated from one wing while the aircraft is still at flying speed. The full length wing will rise rapidly but on the other side there is basically nothing to keep the aircraft from rolling over. The engine is gone and roughly the short portion of the wing remaining is shorter then the distance from the belly to the ground. On most other aircraft they do not have a center gear. The center gear will keep the aircraft from settling to the ground on it's belly when the outside gear collapses. Instead, the aircraft is still sitting at full height above the ground with a massive spinning moment arm. I don't see any reason the aircraft wouldn't roll over.
There have been many DC-10-10 and -30 hard landings over the years. I've sat through many and created several my self. I don't ever remember the gear collapsing. Or the wing snapping. The only thing close is Sioux City and they didn't have the center gear down and they didn't roll over in the same manner.
Just things that made me think.
03-31-2009, 06:21 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: CR7 FO
Posts: 141
I believe the NTSB will be party to the investigation because it is the investigating body from the nation of manufacture and company registry. The Japanese will participate because the accident took place in their country.
If I remember correctly all three of these parties (nation of manufacture, operation and accident site) are party to the investigation but that the Japanese lead the investigation because it took place on their soil. All that being said, even if the Japanese lead (they will probibly give the NTSB the honors since they aren't as experienced) the NTSB will issue their own final report.
If I remember correctly all three of these parties (nation of manufacture, operation and accident site) are party to the investigation but that the Japanese lead the investigation because it took place on their soil. All that being said, even if the Japanese lead (they will probibly give the NTSB the honors since they aren't as experienced) the NTSB will issue their own final report.
03-31-2009, 06:26 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
Since the FedEx accident occured outside of the US, will the NTSB create a brief (PDF file) on the accident? Or will we have to read whatever the Japanese publish?
The accident investigation will be handled by the JTSB (Japan Transport Safety Board). The NTSB will act as a consultant (they were on-scene in NRT and the recorders were transcribed by the NTSB under the supervision of the JTSB). The final report WILL (eventually) be released for public distribution.
03-31-2009, 06:28 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
Originally Posted by ChickenFlight
I believe the NTSB will be party to the investigation because it is the investigating body from the nation of manufacture and company registry. The Japanese will participate because the accident took place in their country.
If I remember correctly all three of these parties (nation of manufacture, operation and accident site) are party to the investigation but that the Japanese lead the investigation because it took place on their soil. All that being said, even if the Japanese lead (they will probibly give the NTSB the honors since they aren't as experienced) the NTSB will issue their own final report.
If I remember correctly all three of these parties (nation of manufacture, operation and accident site) are party to the investigation but that the Japanese lead the investigation because it took place on their soil. All that being said, even if the Japanese lead (they will probibly give the NTSB the honors since they aren't as experienced) the NTSB will issue their own final report.
Actually, the JTSB DOES NOT invite other participants under a "party" status arrangement (despite party status being recognized by ICAO).
03-31-2009, 06:47 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,096
I read somewhere recently that the blackboxes (FDX80) were sent to Washington because they were slightly damaged and the officials in Japan didn't have the equipment to read salvage the information. Has anyone else heard the same?
Was this MD-11 installed with newer technology Flight Data Recorders or the ones originally installed during manufacturing?
Do FedEx MD-11s have predictive windshear?
Thanks...
Was this MD-11 installed with newer technology Flight Data Recorders or the ones originally installed during manufacturing?
Do FedEx MD-11s have predictive windshear?
Thanks...
03-31-2009, 06:54 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
Originally Posted by ClutchCargo
This guy has an agenda. It's called the anti-union agenda. Check out the home page if his website: Airline Safety Home Page, Airlines News, Airline unions, ALPA arrogance, Frederick Dubinsky, Roger Hall, Union featherbedding, Islamofascist terrorism, Aviation News, Airline accidents
I'm not impressed.
Also, He doesn't appear to have any MD11/MD10 info after 1999.
I'm not impressed.
Also, He doesn't appear to have any MD11/MD10 info after 1999.
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