Seniority and the Status Quo
12-17-2009, 07:29 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 135
Seniority and the Status Quo
For decades, the airline business has been cyclical, with periods of boom marked by hiring and rapid seniority progression and periods of bust marked by furloughs and seniority stagnation. For the same past decades, when accepting employment during a period of boom every pilot has accepted the risk of furlough during a period of bust (otherwise he wouldn't have accepted employment.) This risk is significantly greater until you have advanced approximately 25-50% of the way up the seniority list.
My question is for the ones DEMANDING the entire seniority list financially participate in the MOU to "possibly" prevent a furlough (the company always retains the right to furlough):
If this seniority-based system has been the status quo for decades, why do you feel the current junior pilots on the UPS seniority list should be exempt from the risk of furlough?
My question is for the ones DEMANDING the entire seniority list financially participate in the MOU to "possibly" prevent a furlough (the company always retains the right to furlough):
If this seniority-based system has been the status quo for decades, why do you feel the current junior pilots on the UPS seniority list should be exempt from the risk of furlough?
12-17-2009, 07:31 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: A300/310 Capt
Posts: 1,642
Fire in the hole!!!!!!!
12-17-2009, 07:34 AM
#3
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
Originally Posted by fedupbusdriver
Fire in the hole!!!!!!!
Not going to fall on that gernade ...
12-17-2009, 08:18 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
Originally Posted by Avg Joe
For decades, the airline business has been cyclical, with periods of boom marked by hiring and rapid seniority progression and periods of bust marked by furloughs and seniority stagnation. For the same past decades, when accepting employment during a period of boom every pilot has accepted the risk of furlough during a period of bust (otherwise he wouldn't have accepted employment.) This risk is significantly greater until you have advanced approximately 25-50% of the way up the seniority list.
My question is for the ones DEMANDING the entire seniority list financially participate in the MOU to "possibly" prevent a furlough (the company always retains the right to furlough):
If this seniority-based system has been the status quo for decades, why do you feel the current junior pilots on the UPS seniority list should be exempt from the risk of furlough?
My question is for the ones DEMANDING the entire seniority list financially participate in the MOU to "possibly" prevent a furlough (the company always retains the right to furlough):
If this seniority-based system has been the status quo for decades, why do you feel the current junior pilots on the UPS seniority list should be exempt from the risk of furlough?
12-17-2009, 08:47 AM
#5
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Brown Boeing Capt
Posts: 41
re post, sorry
12-17-2009, 08:51 AM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Brown Boeing Capt
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by Avg Joe
If this seniority-based system has been the status quo for decades, why do you feel the current junior pilots on the UPS seniority list should be exempt from the risk of furlough?
For the past decades the status-quo has been that when someone reached a certain age they retired. Buh bye, see ya. They didn't occupy a placeholder seat after they were no longer able to fly just to come back to the left seat all at once to displace those junior en mass. Their improved seniority windfall was as a direct result of those in front of them leaving.
This wasn't a cycle. There wasn't a hiring "boom". 300+ were hired to replace attrition. Past practice and status-quo don't apply. Stagnation and a possible furlough were not only as a result of a downtown, they are result of a sudden an unprecedented change in past practice and status-quo. This is different.
Just sayin....
Last edited by dfwdavi8r; 12-17-2009 at 09:04 AM.
12-17-2009, 09:40 AM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 65
In a nutshell it is the "Obama thing" to do!
Socialist ideology is creeping into American society and the healthcare legislation currently being pushed is a perfect indicator of what is to come. The mantra of the day is entitlement, even though many people vehemently will deny that.
Now let's take it to an extreme. Why doesn't a 3 year F/O get paid the same as a 15 year F/O? After all they both do the same job, moving the airplane from point A to point B!
Or even better, why don't F/O's and Captains get paid the same amount because after all the airplane can't move without both of them?
Why do we even have a seniority system? Maybe for each bid period there could be a drawing to determine your seniority for bidding. After all why should the number one guy always get his first choice? Is that fair?
You can go on and on, but with the attitudes creeping into American society I see nothing more than an imitation of policy in socialist countries. The IPA appears to be following suite too.
Socialist ideology is creeping into American society and the healthcare legislation currently being pushed is a perfect indicator of what is to come. The mantra of the day is entitlement, even though many people vehemently will deny that.
Now let's take it to an extreme. Why doesn't a 3 year F/O get paid the same as a 15 year F/O? After all they both do the same job, moving the airplane from point A to point B!
Or even better, why don't F/O's and Captains get paid the same amount because after all the airplane can't move without both of them?
Why do we even have a seniority system? Maybe for each bid period there could be a drawing to determine your seniority for bidding. After all why should the number one guy always get his first choice? Is that fair?
You can go on and on, but with the attitudes creeping into American society I see nothing more than an imitation of policy in socialist countries. The IPA appears to be following suite too.
12-17-2009, 10:58 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,235
Originally Posted by Naven
Because not all of us are lucky enough to be hired at 23 years old. Most of the last 300 guys hired are in the middle of their career and UPS recruited them because of their heavy time and international time to staff ANC. And unlike the past UPS has given the IPA the opportunity to stop a furlough through voluntary measures. The MOU has also enabled you to line your pockets with opentime without the thought of contributing to the MOU.
12-17-2009, 12:00 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by Avg Joe
My question is for the ones DEMANDING the entire seniority list financially participate in the MOU to "possibly" prevent a furlough (the company always retains the right to furlough):
If this seniority-based system has been the status quo for decades, why do you feel the current junior pilots on the UPS seniority list should be exempt from the risk of furlough?
If this seniority-based system has been the status quo for decades, why do you feel the current junior pilots on the UPS seniority list should be exempt from the risk of furlough?
12-17-2009, 12:34 PM
#10
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Seat of Pain
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by cashcow
In a nutshell it is the "Obama thing" to do!
Socialist ideology is creeping into American society and the healthcare legislation currently being pushed is a perfect indicator of what is to come. The mantra of the day is entitlement, even though many people vehemently will deny that.
Now let's take it to an extreme. Why doesn't a 3 year F/O get paid the same as a 15 year F/O? After all they both do the same job, moving the airplane from point A to point B!
Or even better, why don't F/O's and Captains get paid the same amount because after all the airplane can't move without both of them?
Why do we even have a seniority system? Maybe for each bid period there could be a drawing to determine your seniority for bidding. After all why should the number one guy always get his first choice? Is that fair?
You can go on and on, but with the attitudes creeping into American society I see nothing more than an imitation of policy in socialist countries. The IPA appears to be following suite too.
Socialist ideology is creeping into American society and the healthcare legislation currently being pushed is a perfect indicator of what is to come. The mantra of the day is entitlement, even though many people vehemently will deny that.
Now let's take it to an extreme. Why doesn't a 3 year F/O get paid the same as a 15 year F/O? After all they both do the same job, moving the airplane from point A to point B!
Or even better, why don't F/O's and Captains get paid the same amount because after all the airplane can't move without both of them?
Why do we even have a seniority system? Maybe for each bid period there could be a drawing to determine your seniority for bidding. After all why should the number one guy always get his first choice? Is that fair?
You can go on and on, but with the attitudes creeping into American society I see nothing more than an imitation of policy in socialist countries. The IPA appears to be following suite too.
Dude, you are so right on!! We can't let those socialist mess with our seniority rights. I think Adam Smith said it best - "Without strict seniority rights for the unionized workers, a free-market capitalist system would be impossible."
