To expect someone to walk away from what is really a part time job paying $240k/year is ludicrous. Being smug about your position while folks are selling off their homes and cars is equally petty.

This thread makes me sick and I wish I hadn't started it. This is bringing out the worst of both ends of the IPA.

I don't doubt that you've heard some bad comments out there. Not much I can do about that. My point is that you seem to complain about the crappy attitude of some junior folks while, then go off on how the vote might not pass or you might not retire just to spite someone. If you can't see the fact that you're no different than the people you're complaining about, I can't help you there.

Are you saying that the majority of the bottom 300 have this bad attitude that you claim is so rampant? I can think of very few of the many bottom 300 that I know who would fit that description. I can think of a few less that tactful senior crewmembers, but I would never base my feelings for a large portion of our list based on the comments of a few people.

If the COBRA vote is approved, I would be very grateful for the assistance (although I don't think I'll need it). I've already gone out of my way to thank senior guys who've participated in the MOU and I would do the same if we were to get COBRA benefits. However, I don't know what you want us to do. Do you want a daily affirmation of how great you are for helping out? You're trying to paint a good group of people with a pretty broad brush and making yourself look like an a-hole in the process.

Lester,
What do you see more here, people displaying the attitude you describe above, or people outraged or calling names to the people that are over 60? Count the times in this thread alone. I know it is not everyone, nor even the majority, but also the attitude that bugs you is not a majority opinion either.

Enough of this ageism

.................................................. ..............................................

When I was a kid, adults used to bore me to tears with their tedious diatribes about how hard things were. When they were growing up; what with walking twenty-five miles to school every morning.... Uphill... Barefoot...BOTH ways… yadda, yadda, yadda

And I remember promising myself that when I grew up, there was no way in hell I was going to lay a bunch of crap like that on my kids about how hard I had it and how easy they've got it!

But now that I'm over the ripe old age of thirty, I can't help but look around and notice the youth of today. You've got it so easy! I mean, compared to my childhood, you live in a damn Utopia!
And I hate to say it, but you kids today, you don't know how good you've got it!

I mean, when I was a kid we didn't have the Internet. If we wanted to know something, we had to go to the damn library and look it up ourselves, in the card catalog!!

There was no email!! We had to actually write somebody a letter - with a pen! Then you had to walk all the way across the street and put it in the mailbox, and it would take like a week to get there! Stamps were 10 cents!

Child Protective Services didn't care if our parents beat us. As a matter of fact, the parents of all my friends also had permission to kick our ass! Nowhere was safe!

There were no MP3's or Napsters or iTunes! If you wanted to steal music, you had to hitchhike to the record store and shoplift it yourself!

Or you had to wait around all day to tape it off the radio, and the DJ would usually talk over the beginning and @#*% it all up! There were no CD players! We had tape decks in our car. We'd play our favorite tape and "eject" it when finished, and then the tape would come undone rendering it useless. Cause, hey, that's how we rolled, Baby! Dig?

We didn't have fancy crap like Call Waiting! If you were on the phone and somebody else called, they got a busy signal, that's it!

There weren't any freakin' cell phones either. If you left the house, you just didn't make a damn call or receive one. You actually had to be out of touch with your "friends". OH MY GOD !!! Think of the horror... not being in touch with someone 24/7!!! And then there's TEXTING. Yeah, right. Please! You kids have no idea how annoying you are.

And we didn't have fancy Caller ID either! When the phone rang, you had no idea who it was! It could be your school, your parents, your boss, your bookie, your drug dealer, the collection agent... you just didn't know!!! You had to pick it up and take your chances, mister!

We didn't have any fancy PlayStation or Xbox video games with high-resolution 3-D graphics! We had the Atari 2600! With games like 'Space Invaders' and 'Asteroids'. Your screen guy was a little square! You actually had to use your imagination!!! And there were no multiple levels or screens, it was just one screen... Forever! And you could never win. The game just kept getting harder and harder and faster and faster until you died! Just like LIFE!

You had to use a little book called a TV Guide to find out what was on! You were screwed when it came to channel surfing! You had to get off your ass and walk over to the TV to change the channel!!! NO REMOTES!!! Oh, no, what's the world coming to?!?!

There was no Cartoon Network either! You could only get cartoons on Saturday Morning. Do you hear what I'm saying? We had to wait ALL WEEK for cartoons, you spoiled little rat-finks!

And we didn't have microwaves. If we wanted to heat something up, we had to use the stove! Imagine that!

And our parents told us to stay outside and play... all day long. Oh, no, no electronics to soothe and comfort. And if you came back inside... you were doing chores!

And car seats - oh, please! Mom threw you in the back seat and you hung on. If you were lucky, you got the "safety arm" across the chest at the last moment if she had to stop suddenly, and if your head hit the dashboard, well that was your fault for calling "shot gun" in the first place!
See! That's exactly what I'm talking about! You kids today have got it too easy. You're spoiled rotten! You guys wouldn't have lasted five minutes back in 1980 or any time before!

Regards,
The Over 40 Crowd

I guess if a vote on COBRA fails, that will really show the junior folks.

This, to the best of my knowledge, has not even been put out to the membership yet. BT said there would be a dues assessment coming up (to cover COBRA). Then another one in December for the upcoming contract war chest. Other than that, this is the only time I have read about it. I have to say I have not come across this attitude that you are referring to. I dont know anyone junior that EXPECTS the IPA membership to pay their medical (hence a vote). But.......there are a few, like LB said, that are idiots. These people are born that way. Nothing you can do to change it.

Talk is cheap. When it is put to a vote, I am sure the IPA will overwhelmingly approve whatever the EB comes up with. Nothing I have seen at work shows otherwise.

Agree?

Interesting read! I dont disagree.

Have you looked at the people getting ready to hit the street? There are lots of people born in the 60's and early 70's.

yes, I know. I'm not sure how many of them are playing the "favre" card. Probably not too many. It's easy to cry out for the over 60's to go and blame a lot on them but it really doesn't do any good. The ones that were going to leave between 60 and 65 have left, and to call the others names is simply counterproductive. I believe that is the point that 7576pilot was trying to make. It's easy to sit here and do, and I hope it makes someone feel better, but I notice nobody seems to have the cajones to do it on the bar and grill, signing their real name to the message. It also leaves a bitter feeling for those of us left to hear it, again, counterproductive to a vote that we all want to see go through

Very likely agree. Its time for some of the group that are about to get laid off to speak up to counter act the vocal minority in your group that may damage you ability to get the help that you will actually need.

What would you suggest?

Look no one here wants anyone to be furloughed or be faced with furlough. I think we can agree with that. It weakens us as a group going into contract talks.

I also believe we agree that as long as we stay united through out this furlough, and I think it will get worse, much worse, that the IPA will come out of this as an example to the industry. The EB has established guidelines to follow. They will put information out to the membership. They will provide a course for us to follow. As long as we all stick together we will win. Atlanta is counting on us to be "greedy, self-centered individuals" (Eastern?) We have to stick together!

This talk of junior pilot entitlement is the first I have heard. Most of these people are afraid. Facing a furlough is not what anyone thought would happen when they took the job here. Many left really good jobs. The first day of class, "Welcome to your last job" was a familiar catch phrase. This makes people angry and fearful. Angry and fearful, just like you would be if you were in their(my) shoes, of what is at stake here. We have NO CONTROL of what is going to happen. You do. Put some of that leadership and control to work. Stop the negative talk when it starts. Deal in facts, not fear and fiction. You ever hear that one rotten apple spoils the bunch?

Not sure what else I can do on an anonymous board. But I do hope when the vote comes up, I can count on you! Remember this is round one of contract negotiations. Atlanta is rolling up their sleeves. They are counting on us to be self-centered and implode. I think they are wrong. What do you think?

767pilot....you are taking the geezer and Favre comments waaaaaaaay too seriously.

I believe that was the point he was trying to make.

B2P