Look my friend, if any of that terrorist,gas, war stuff happens, UPS is going to be all over our sht wanting it back anyway. Stand tough for a little while longer. If you like the deal vote yes, but not out of fear. I think in the next day or so you may see something to make your NO vote a little easier:rolleyes:

One thing about the charts that you put up too is that while the 300k a year sounds great, it is the same buying power as you had in 1998, and will get this year if the thing passes. It is only the 223 rate adjusted for inflation, not an overall improvement in your style of living.

Lemme guess, Bob Miller's announcement that he's going to run?

vote on reality, not fear
 

Honestly, do you really think that the eventual T/A that passes is going to be a significant improvement over today's? Let me tell you something, what you're looking at in this T/A is 99% of what we'll see in an eventaul contract.

My vote won't be out of fear, it will be based on what my union's experts say (and 99% of us line pilots are not experts) and the reality that a delay does not equal improvements.

Vote no, and you'll be losing pay, retirement contributions, and heartache for another 6 to 12 mos. ANd in the end still be bitching about the contract.

Just one man's opinion!

P3,

Guys like you are the reason that our union has NEVER in the past, and never will in the future, get ahead in contract Negotiations. We will always be substandard to FedEx and everyother carrier out there because you are not willing to risk it all for a better life. (You probably picked up opentime and accepted JA's for the past 4 years as well)

I think that our union would be stronger if we didnt have people like you in it... Management paperwork is readily available when ever your ready to make the jump. Oh thats right, your waiting till you can cast your vote and the contract is passed, adn then putting your paperwork in.


BBDC8

I think that we heard from someone else today
IPA, Good Day:cool:

Certainly a valid point, but I am willing to roll the dice. If we do no better, I promise not to ***** to you when I see you <G>

Since I’m “outside looking in” I have a question about the posted pay chart. I am all for pilots getting what’s rightfully due to them but do you current cargo guys/gals get just a little nervous seeing that 300k a year with terrorist, gas prices, and war?

I am just playing the devils advocate here, but during these times of gas prices, war, and terrorist attacks, UPS the company has made unbelievable profits. Sometimes almost 1 billion a quarter. That's profit! Not operating revenue!

The 300k you talk about is only for a few senior guys at UPS. The TA allows UPS to "stunt growth" in terms of Captain positions. The language in this TA will, I believe, hurt us the most. If this thing gets voted down, nobody will be on our side. The hourly pay is all anyone looks at. It goes much deeper than that! Think about it. If someone offers you 300k a year tomorrow you would take it. I don't blame you! However, in that same deal your position is no longer needed. What would you do?

I think it's something to seriously think about! JMHO

ta
 

BigBrown...

What, someone disagrees with you and all of a sudden he must be picking up opentime and ja? He should get his app for mgmt ready? WTFO????

Seems to me that you working in the training center brings you a few extra dollars every month. Why are you enriching yourself in this manner during negotiations? Have you sold back any sick for the last four years? Again, you're just padding your paycheck. Ever trip trade and have one more hour of pay? There you go again!!

My point is this...you can agree to disagree with someone else without attaching motives for the viewpoint. Attacking him and promising to "meet" him is far below the standards of union solidarity. Whatever the vote, we will all stand together in the aftermath. You're poisoning the life that we will all have to live whether this thing passes or not.

As far as BM returning, he is no better (probably worse) than TN. He personally lied to me on a fairly important issue. There are reasons he was turned out of office....he lost touch with the membership.

If we vote this thing down, we need new leadership and someone to bring everyone together, not just the moonies and the supporters of the present administration. BM is not the guy, neither is TN.

If I had gone over the edge like you did in your post, I would pony up an apology when I reread the post. We don't deserve that kind of treatment from mgmt and we sure as hell don't deserve it from our own union brothers....

JMO

Pilot7576