Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Cargo
UPS avg. Captain pay with T/A >

UPS avg. Captain pay with T/A

Notices
Cargo Part 121 cargo airlines

UPS avg. Captain pay with T/A

Old 07-24-2006, 04:22 PM
  #21  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Jet Pilot
Posts: 797
Default

Originally Posted by BIGBROWNDC8
Un freakin believeable!!!

P3. I just wish you would have said that you think this TA is good, thats why you are voting Yes, That IMO would be fine, but no, you say the TA sucks but will still vote yes because your scared...

I hope the IPA never goes on strike, If we did, UPS might threaten to fire us all for striking, and based on your spineless actions with this TA, I could see you being the first to cross the line... We wouldnt want you to lose you job now would we...


BBDC8
I don't think anybody is saying that the TA is an absolute gem, but I think people are starting to look at it for what it actualy is - a proposal and voting accordingly.

Sure, I was a definite "no" vote when it first came out, but after I separated myself from all of the b!tching and opinions floating around and actually read it for myself, my opinion changed. Do I love it? No, but I like it enough where I can live under it if it is voted in, and I don't see enough negatives to necessitate an overwhelming no vote. One has to weigh the positives and the negatives.

I don't care that a person votes one way or another, just as long as each person can separate fact from fiction, read it for what it is, and make a determination if you and your family can live under this. Majority rules, and if it is voted in we deal with it as a group. If it is voted down, we regroup together and work as a team to get something we can work under.

My personal guess, and I am not aiming this at you, is that many who say they are voting "no" will probably end up voting "yes". If you want my my opinion, those are the ones you want to watch when it comes to crossing a picket line.

Last edited by Lab Rat; 07-24-2006 at 04:40 PM.
Lab Rat is offline  
Old 07-24-2006, 04:34 PM
  #22  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Jet Pilot
Posts: 797
Default

The TA allows UPS to "stunt growth" in terms of Captain positions.
OOTSK,

I respectfully disagree. As an observation, I think it has more to do with people picking up tons of open time during "normal" times, as well as people accepting JA's. Personally, I think if nobody picked up extra flying during any time, we would at least see more hiring, if not more upgrades as well.
Lab Rat is offline  
Old 07-24-2006, 07:01 PM
  #23  
Gets Weekends Off
 
767pilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 767 captain
Posts: 2,695
Default

Originally Posted by cargo hopeful
Since I’m “outside looking in” I have a question about the posted pay chart. I am all for pilots getting what’s rightfully due to them but do you current cargo guys/gals get just a little nervous seeing that 300k a year with terrorist, gas prices, and war?
What would I be nervous at, that it would break my company? They are doing quite well thank you, and at the point where they aren't and can't afford to pay this much, they can and will come to talk to us. Traditionally the pilots groups have been the first to give back and the most generous if it is needed as we have th emost to lose. I am proud of my paycheck and don't feel the need to wear a mask or back up to the pay window when it is my turn to pikc up my paycheck
767pilot is offline  
Old 07-24-2006, 07:28 PM
  #24  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 171
Default

Originally Posted by Pilot7576
My point is this...you can agree to disagree with someone else without attaching motives for the viewpoint. Attacking him and promising to "meet" him is far below the standards of union solidarity. Whatever the vote, we will all stand together in the aftermath. You're poisoning the life that we will all have to live whether this thing passes or not.

As far as BM returning, he is no better (probably worse) than TN. He personally lied to me on a fairly important issue. There are reasons he was turned out of office....he lost touch with the membership.

If we vote this thing down, we need new leadership and someone to bring everyone together, not just the moonies and the supporters of the present administration. BM is not the guy, neither is TN.

If I had gone over the edge like you did in your post, I would pony up an apology when I reread the post. We don't deserve that kind of treatment from mgmt and we sure as hell don't deserve it from our own union brothers....
Originally Posted by Lab Rat
I don't think anybody is saying that the TA is an absolute gem, but I think people are starting to look at it for what it actualy is - a proposal and voting accordingly.

Sure, I was a definite "no" vote when it first came out, but after I separated myself from all of the b!tching and opinions floating around and actually read it for myself, my opinion changed. Do I love it? No, but I like it enough where I can live under it if it is voted in, and I don't see enough negatives to necessitate an overwhelming no vote. One has to weigh the positives and the negatives.

I don't care that a person votes one way or another, just as long as each person can separate fact from fiction, read it for what it is, and make a determination if you and your family can live under this. Majority rules, and if it is voted in we deal with it as a group. If it is voted down, we regroup together and work as a team to get something we can work under.

My personal guess, and I am not aiming this at you, is that many who say they are voting "no" will probably end up voting "yes". If you want my my opinion, those are the ones you want to watch when it comes to crossing a picket line.
Two great posts!

Whether this TA goes through or not, Bob is not the answer to our problems. We are the problem. We think we are smarter than our elected reps, hired consultants, and the company. The midterm agreement for the MD11 IRO is a good example. In hindsight, it was a pretty good deal. We would've had some things now that we wish we had in this TA. 125% OT, $39k for new hires, etc. We turned it down because we wanted to poke the company in the eye. Well, guess what? They got their IROs anyway and we were left holding the bag. We really showed them! My opinion only, but I see the same thing happening again if this goes down.

Telling people to grow a pair or calling them names because you don't like their opinion doesn't help build unity. This will only divide us further! Pass or fail, we will have to work together for a long time. This is a business deal. Keep your emotions out of it. If you think it's fair, vote yes. If not, vote no. Seems pretty simple to me.
IPAMD11FO is offline  
Old 07-24-2006, 07:41 PM
  #25  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Priority 3's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Unknown
Posts: 211
Default

Originally Posted by IPAMD11FO
We are the problem. We think we are smarter than our elected reps, hired consultants, and the company.
Bingo, IPAMD11FO. Add to that an entitlement attitude of many of our pilots, and you get the kind of nonsensical, emotional ranting that's going on right now over this T/A.
Priority 3 is offline  
Old 07-24-2006, 08:26 PM
  #26  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: DC-8
Posts: 76
Default

pilot7576,
I never promised anything to anyone about "meeting" them anywhere... What are you talking about. Did I miss something or say something that may be interpeted as a threat? Let me know. Im not trying to threaten anyone if that is what you are talking about, this is a messege board not the "Fight Club" and if I did say that, I would issue an apology immediately... Please show me... I went back and read my post and didnt see anything like that...

Im disagree with P3 because he admits this TA is bad and then says he will vote yes for it anyway because he is scared.

Im glad you have decided that this TA works for you, I expect that you will vote yes and as far as Im concerned, (not that you care, but) thats fine with me. But to think this TA is a bad deal and you only motivation to vote yes is fear. I have a difficult time understanding that...

You seem quick to slander the IPA instructors for working in the training center. Do you really want us all to stop working there and let the Managers run every aspect of training????

I use my sicktime when ever I need it and NEVER fear any reprisal for doing so, If I use it all, that fine with me, If not and the rule is that you get a sick time check like everyone else, including you, that is fine with me too... Sick time is sick time, I use when Im sick... Period... I dont call in sick when Im not sick...

NO, I have NEVER traded a trip of anything... EVER... Ive ALWAYS been on reserve since Ive been hired here... and most the time, not by my choice...

Next question...

BBDC8

Last edited by BIGBROWNDC8; 07-25-2006 at 08:53 PM.
BIGBROWNDC8 is offline  
Old 07-25-2006, 09:38 PM
  #27  
Gets Weekends Off
 
To Stay or Go's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 141
Default

Sent by mistake to BBDC8

Last edited by To Stay or Go; 07-25-2006 at 10:35 PM.
To Stay or Go is offline  
Old 07-26-2006, 01:55 AM
  #28  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Pilot7576's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 679
Default

BBDC8...

Now you know how I'm going to vote? Talk about reading something into nothing! My examples of you in the training center/sick buy back/trading was not a slam at you, it was listing the different ways OTHERS can look at each pilot and say "you're not doing your part for the union." I'm not saying it's right or accurate, it's all perception.

Your comments about p3 voting yes and so must be a mgmt candidate is what drove my response. Perhaps it was tic, but you never indicated that. I am going to vote (yes or no) based on the total package, not out of fear. If the ta fails by a small majority, the new ta will be only subtly better than this one, and there is a chance it will be substantially worse. The two most important items to me are scope and scheduling...everything else is secondary. If you don't have scope, you don't have growth and if you don't have scheduling, you won't last long enough to enjoy whatever retirement we negotiate. Luby says scope is the best bar none; I have to trust that assessment because I'm not a scope guru. When CD comes out with the bid packs, I'll see if the scheduling will work.

Just as an aside, federal ended up settling on a ta that was less than the agreement that their nc refused to send to the membership for a vote. Revisionist history always looks good in arguments, but ask one of your federal friends to show you the copy of the letter that fred sent to the families during the last negotiations....the "with or without you" letter.

Just some food for thought. No matter how the vote turns out, we will have to stand together. Your post to p3 really doesn't support that unity.

JMO

Pilot7576
Pilot7576 is offline  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:45 AM
  #29  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Rocket Bob's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: B-747-400 FO
Posts: 354
Default

Careful tossing out those "concessionary contract" phrases in a room full of DAL, UAL, USAir, NWA, AMR pilots, you may get punched in the face. Does UPS make 4 bill. a year, yeah... And if every other employee feels the same sense of entitlement that we have exhibited over the next few years, this company will be bleeding. Big Brown will have the same problems that now plague other big companies, high labor costs, pension problems, health care issues, etc., just a matter of time.
Rocket Bob is offline  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:56 AM
  #30  
With The Resistance
 
jungle's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
Default

The common denominator with those "other" big companies is not cost of labor but a failure to respond to the market and provide a properly priced, competitive product. There has been a lot of blame placed on the Unions, but it is well to remember that both management and the Unions entered into the agreement. It is also wise to remember that these agreements have long been voided, yet are still blamed for current poor performance. We have never approached peak Legacy pay rates and are still a long way off with the current TA despite tremendous profits.
The Legacy carriers are in a much more competitive market than FEDEX or UPS because the capital costs to enter the package market are very much higher than the passenger market.
jungle is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Freighter Captain
Cargo
29
05-22-2007 07:51 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices