UPS Pool/Classes
10-28-2014, 06:59 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 429
Originally Posted by whalesurfer
To those who just interviewed and were hired into the pool, congrats!!! We all hope to see you in training very, very soon!
Word of advice - stay off message boards! It won't do you any good except give you ulcers. You'll simply worry about what you've just gotten into based on the pessimism so freely shared by some of our brothers and sisters.
The vast majority of us enjoy this job - and that's all it is - a job, a fairly well paying job thanks to the IPA.
The message boards however are dominated by some very jaded doomsday'ers and members of the 'end-is-near' cult.
Most of them have legit gripes BUT their complaints won't help you whatsoever at this point.
So keep doing what you've been doing - enjoy your life, your family, your friends and hopefully we'll be buying you all beers and/or drinks of your choice before you know it.
Congrats again!!!
Word of advice - stay off message boards! It won't do you any good except give you ulcers. You'll simply worry about what you've just gotten into based on the pessimism so freely shared by some of our brothers and sisters.
The vast majority of us enjoy this job - and that's all it is - a job, a fairly well paying job thanks to the IPA.
The message boards however are dominated by some very jaded doomsday'ers and members of the 'end-is-near' cult.
Most of them have legit gripes BUT their complaints won't help you whatsoever at this point.
So keep doing what you've been doing - enjoy your life, your family, your friends and hopefully we'll be buying you all beers and/or drinks of your choice before you know it.
Congrats again!!!
10-28-2014, 07:38 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MD CA
Posts: 705
I don't see UPS Hiring that many for years to come. Maybe 50 a year. There isn't a Need. No new Gateways. No Aircraft on Order. No Big Time Retirements for about 5 more years. How many have to Retire in 2015? 25? Seriously, that is weak.
Part 117 is a pipe dream. Ain't going happen. Not until a Night Freighter runs into a School or that lines. Fact. This is how the FAA and Washington work.
So I see a long, long slow climb in Seniority here. At least for the next 5 to 10 years. Unless they do a 180 and actually grow and buy Airplanes. Which is not in the cards at the moment.
We may see a one time jump if we get a Solid A plan. Maybe 100 will leave then. But that will be a one time spike.
Part 117 is a pipe dream. Ain't going happen. Not until a Night Freighter runs into a School or that lines. Fact. This is how the FAA and Washington work.
So I see a long, long slow climb in Seniority here. At least for the next 5 to 10 years. Unless they do a 180 and actually grow and buy Airplanes. Which is not in the cards at the moment.
We may see a one time jump if we get a Solid A plan. Maybe 100 will leave then. But that will be a one time spike.
10-29-2014, 06:11 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 226
Originally Posted by Commando
I don't see UPS Hiring that many for years to come. Maybe 50 a year. There isn't a Need. No new Gateways. No Aircraft on Order. No Big Time Retirements for about 5 more years. How many have to Retire in 2015? 25? Seriously, that is weak.
Part 117 is a pipe dream. Ain't going happen. Not until a Night Freighter runs into a School or that lines. Fact. This is how the FAA and Washington work.
So I see a long, long slow climb in Seniority here. At least for the next 5 to 10 years. Unless they do a 180 and actually grow and buy Airplanes. Which is not in the cards at the moment.
We may see a one time jump if we get a Solid A plan. Maybe 100 will leave then. But that will be a one time spike.
Part 117 is a pipe dream. Ain't going happen. Not until a Night Freighter runs into a School or that lines. Fact. This is how the FAA and Washington work.
So I see a long, long slow climb in Seniority here. At least for the next 5 to 10 years. Unless they do a 180 and actually grow and buy Airplanes. Which is not in the cards at the moment.
We may see a one time jump if we get a Solid A plan. Maybe 100 will leave then. But that will be a one time spike.
*True the retirement numbers are low, but are those numbers realistic when you factor in attrition from early retirement, medical issues, etc.?
According to the UPS profile here, there were 28 mandatory retirements in 2013, I would be curious to see the actual number of pilots who retired. Anyone?
*While we are not approaching the Class B of Prt. 117, I think the glow is on the horizon and approaching, only time will tell.
*Long slow climb in seniority at UPS I would say is valid, however for those lucky enough to find a position - the 2nd year pay is astounding from my point of view.
I could swing gear all night long for that.
Not to say the vision is fixated solely on pay as I realize there are more cogs in the wheel.
Though many on this site tend to point out how bad things are at Brown (and I respect that, as I haven't flown in your shoes), or how worse it will be in the future.
I find it interesting that when they announced the hiring of 40 pilots back in May their site had to be closed due to the overwhelming amount of on line applications.
I think there is something to be said for that.
One thing is for sure, I know a handful of retired UPS pilots who pretty much all agree (and yes they were from a different era of the late 80's-90's, etc), that once it was all said and done. There were problems, there were issues, some bad times and decisions along with a lot of great times and great decisions. Overall, it was a good gig and they are glad they were there.
10-29-2014, 06:38 AM
#46
Callsign Duchess
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 92
Using pilot group size and retirement data posted on APC, and starting at 1 Jan 2014...
By the end of 2019, UPS will have retired 11% of its pilot group due to Age 65. This compares to FDX 21%, DAL 15%, UAL 20%, AAL 24%.
By the end of 2024, UPS retires 31% of the 1 Jan 2014 seniority list due to Age 65. FDX will have retired 46%, DAL 48%, UAL 39%, AAL 50%.
UPS hits 50% Age 65 retirements by the end of 2027, and 70% by 2030.
APC shows 37 mandatory retirements at UPS in 2014...but there was almost that much attrition (due to mandatory/early retirements, medicals, terminations, etc.) in the first six months of the year alone.
---
It does not make sense that UPS would have continued interviewing more than a month after the last 2014 newhire class started simply to promote "optimism" into Peak.
By the end of 2019, UPS will have retired 11% of its pilot group due to Age 65. This compares to FDX 21%, DAL 15%, UAL 20%, AAL 24%.
By the end of 2024, UPS retires 31% of the 1 Jan 2014 seniority list due to Age 65. FDX will have retired 46%, DAL 48%, UAL 39%, AAL 50%.
UPS hits 50% Age 65 retirements by the end of 2027, and 70% by 2030.
APC shows 37 mandatory retirements at UPS in 2014...but there was almost that much attrition (due to mandatory/early retirements, medicals, terminations, etc.) in the first six months of the year alone.
---
It does not make sense that UPS would have continued interviewing more than a month after the last 2014 newhire class started simply to promote "optimism" into Peak.
10-29-2014, 09:20 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MD CA
Posts: 705
Originally Posted by Vito
Commando,
So you think that there will be no growth in online shopping and shipping in the next few years worldwide?
So you think that there will be no growth in online shopping and shipping in the next few years worldwide?
Do we have any Airframes on Order? Do we have any New Gateways? This is what drives the need for Pilots to be Hired. The Answer is No.
The only bump over what I predict as 30 to 50 a year for awhile, is a A plan bump. And that will maybe force UPS to Hire up to a 100. Which means we are in for slow, slow growth for years. We are such a young pilot group. Look at the seniority list. Thousand plus Hired with DOB in 1960-1967. We are not FDX that started in 1975 with now an older group.
We haven't Hired in 7 years. And we Hire 40! That should be all you need to know.
Look at FDX. They have sooo many more Gateways and usually Double or Triple the Aircraft parked at the ramps we do share. ATL, ORD, PHX, CLE, etc.
10-29-2014, 10:15 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by Commando
Vito, I didn't say that. There will be growth in online shopping and shipping. But that has Zip to do with the Air Operations and Hiring. UPS will use the Ground Side and the Team Drivers for the increase. Like they have done the recently with the increases.
Do we have any Airframes on Order? Do we have any New Gateways? This is what drives the need for Pilots to be Hired. The Answer is No.
The only bump over what I predict as 30 to 50 a year for awhile, is a A plan bump. And that will maybe force UPS to Hire up to a 100. Which means we are in for slow, slow growth for years. We are such a young pilot group. Look at the seniority list. Thousand plus Hired with DOB in 1960-1967. We are not FDX that started in 1975 with now an older group.
We haven't Hired in 7 years. And we Hire 40! That should be all you need to know.
Look at FDX. They have sooo many more Gateways and usually Double or Triple the Aircraft parked at the ramps we do share. ATL, ORD, PHX, CLE, etc.
Do we have any Airframes on Order? Do we have any New Gateways? This is what drives the need for Pilots to be Hired. The Answer is No.
The only bump over what I predict as 30 to 50 a year for awhile, is a A plan bump. And that will maybe force UPS to Hire up to a 100. Which means we are in for slow, slow growth for years. We are such a young pilot group. Look at the seniority list. Thousand plus Hired with DOB in 1960-1967. We are not FDX that started in 1975 with now an older group.
We haven't Hired in 7 years. And we Hire 40! That should be all you need to know.
Look at FDX. They have sooo many more Gateways and usually Double or Triple the Aircraft parked at the ramps we do share. ATL, ORD, PHX, CLE, etc.
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