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Old 07-12-2010, 06:05 PM
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User CP then Buddy/ignore. Ignore works pretty good.
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Soyathink View Post
A truck is a truck. A plane is a plane. If the truck does not leave the airport ramp then that could be classified under airline ops.. If it is registered with the appropriate state and travels on public roads then it is the same as every other delivery company on the planet except Fed Ex. Tugs, same thing if they are driven on public roads and not on airport property, carts too. I have yet to see a tug or baggage cart deliver my package in my neighborhood.
So now your issue is WHERE the trucks operate, not how many. So it's okay that FedEx has 41,000 trucks, but it's just that they're on the open road. But that's not the legal criteria. You see, the RLA just doesn't cover airlines, but railroads, too. And I don't think that the railroads would fit your criteria of just having their trucks in the rail yard. Either way, I'll give you a airline example that bursts your theory. Try to buy a ticket on Continental Airlines from Newark, NJ to Allentown, PA. They'll charge you $1,400 for a non-stop flight, but when you read the small print, you are traveling on Continental Connection Bus Service. That's right, after you go through security, you go to gate C-whatever and get loaded on a bus which drives (over the open roads) to Allentown, PA, where you are unloaded into the terminal. So what labor law do you think those drivers fall under?
Originally Posted by Soyathink View Post
I have yet to see the catering truck with a cleaner deliver my package in my neighborhood. I've seen Fed Ex and UPS though.
You're right. I've also had on more than one occasion (more than I'd like to count) a big, grey van with 'United Airlines' painted on the side come to my house to drop off my three-day old lost luggage. How did they get there without me building a 5,000 foot airstrip in my backyard? Oh, yeah, roads...
Originally Posted by Soyathink View Post
How many Fed Ex trucks leave airport grounds and drive on public roads delivering packages. How many Fed Ex centers are off airport grounds and a tractor trailer delivers packages to thos centers off airport grounds? If truck mechanics are again based on airport property and fix trucks that are used on airport property IE the old yellow UPS Package Cars then yes they should be classified under RLA because they are involved in Airline ops sustaining the airline on airport property. If Fed Ex trucks never leave airport property then yep RLA.
Again, this is not the legal test to see if a worker falls under the RLA. It's a two-prong test (function and ownership) and nowhere does location come into play. American Airlines IT workers were found to fall under the RLA, even though they do not work on airport property. Their work was found to be integral to the airline's operation, and they were found to be owned by AA, therefore, RLA.
Originally Posted by Soyathink View Post
I was shown those in confidence. I will ask if I can post them for you to see. I will post tomorrow a couple of Fed Ex Smart Post tracking results. You can check under the Fed Ex Ground Site that smart post is under Fed Ex Ground. Thes packages went air though. The results will show that a package going from Dallas to Atalanta made it in under 8 hours. You cannot drive that by automobile in 8 hours. A train will not make it in 8 hours. I have a few examples of this to show if you want to see. I have to upload them to Flickr and they are on my other computer.
Soya, you are always haranguing everybody else in your posts for proof, proof, proof... but when asked to provide some, you have none. You can PM me the pictures, I will delete them after looking at them. Also waiting for an example where a FedEx Ground package went on an airplane. I'll give you another couple of days.

Here's my final though (until I get the pictures).

Until you can show me otherwise, here's how it works. FedEx Express is an airline, with airplanes, and vehicles. The vehicles are instrumental to the airline and they are owned by the airline. It has no bearing where the drivers drive, where they work, or that other drivers in this country fall under the NLRA. These FedEx Express drivers are airline employees that do a job vital and critical to the airline operation. Therefore they are rightly found to perform work under the RLA.

In my years at FedEx I can honestly say I have NEVER seen a FedEx ground truck at one of our Express sort facilities. Not in Memphis, nor Des Moines, Newark, or Fort Lauderdale. Never. It is a separate company, with separate sort facilities, separate infrastructure, separate everything.

Now, it is my understanding that UPS packages, whether you are shipping Air, Ground, whatever, all go to the same sort facility with intermingling of ground and air packages. That is the issue... there is no separate air drivers and ground drivers, therefore, NLRA. If UPS wants to break off their air division drivers from their ground network, then so be it. But until then, or until the Teamsters and UPS bully congress into writing a 'FedEx clause' unto the pending legislation, this is the way it will (and should) remain.

Originally Posted by Soyathink View Post
I appreciate good debate. You make some good points. Thank you.
Ditto. And seeing how I'm not convincing you and you are not convincing me, this is going nowhere, except to keep me from things I really enjoy doing, this is my last post on the subject (unless of course, I get those pictures from you).

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Old 07-13-2010, 10:44 AM
  #83  
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Soju response 1.

Yeah but fred smith said this and that he hates unions.
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Soyathink View Post
Kronan,

It all comes down to labor costs. The drivers and loaders in FDX express are not union and it is difficult to organize them under the RLA. RLA is used to prevent Airlines and Railroads from work stoppages causing disruptions in the US Economy. UPS delivers more of the GDP than FDX though. A number of FDX couriers are part time now making far less than their UPS counterparts. I won't mention benifits because the FDX Express Courier has to pay for them and the UPS Driver doesn't. The UPS Driver has a pension too.

FDX Ground drivers both tractor trailer and delivery drivers have to purchase their trucks. They have to be a white in color and type per FDX Ground Specs. So Fed Ex does not own the trucks. Just the trailers. FDX Ground does not have to pay for fuel on these trucks. Fed Ex Ground doesn't have to pay registrations or insurance on these vehicles. The FDX Ground Driver has to pay for all his truck repairs. The FDX Ground Driver has to pay for a rental and tow if a breakdown occurs. It is all the responsability of the drivers or route owners. Fed Ex Ground drivers are Independent Contractors. They all have individual contracts based on a particular route designated by FDX Ground. They are paid on a per piece basis so they are motivated to to get as much volume as possible. They are also paid on customer service bonus's. A number of these IC's are involved in a lawsuit against FDX because FDX dictates everything they do and reprimands them but they don't consider them employees. (cake and eat it too) The FDX ground driver has to pay FDX EX if he wants to take a vacation. The FDX Ground driver has no insurance, no unemployment compensation, no retirement unless he pays for it. Some of theFDX Ground drivers own multiple routes to try to make more money. They hire somebody at minimum wage or on a contract to deliver and pick up. Having spoke to a number of FDX Ground drivers you can "Make" $100,000 per year but after having to have an accountant, fuel, maint. overhead the drivers have. You might take home $30,000. per route. If fuel goes up or you have breakdowns the cut that by alot. Go to FedEx.com the Express side has more ground vehicles than ground but ground is under the NLRA and Express is Governed by RLA. (Cake and Eat it too) Since the Ground drivers are independent contractors it would be impossible to unionize. So Fred has an entire ground system that has little overhead and cannot unionize. Fred has an Express System that cannot unionize easily because of governing laws. Each is supposed to be a different company operating seperate but they are not. Roller decks in ground trailers that can only haul cans. Lifts at ground stations with caster floors for cans. I posted a link to a FDX Ground Station right Next to a FDX Express Station on google earth. There is a walkway going right between the two painted with yellow saftey lines. Why would you need that if they were separate companies? FDX Smart post is under the FDX Ground Shell. It is were the package is supposed to go via ground not air then to be delivered last mile by the USPS. FDX Express is hauling these packages and FDX Express Couriers are taking them to the Post Office to deliver. FDX Smart post business had a 23% growth rate last quarter. How because FDX sales people are going after large accounts offering Express transit times with ground rates using cheap labor governed under separate labor laws. This is taking marketshare away from UPS. Luckily UPS isn't as lavish as FDX with a corporate air fleet and other high cost perks that are not needed for everyday operations.

It is funny how UPS is the largest Railroad customer in the world but isn't governed under the RLA Railway Labor Act. It's funny how UPS has a heavy jet fleet and is an Airline just like the Fed Ex Shell company but isn't governed under the RLA. UPS is governed under the NLRA. So Fed Ex can do everything UPS can without a union, without a threat of work stoppage and a lot lower cost of labor. Anytime it gets to be contract time at UPS either for pilots or drivers, FDX sales goes out in full force pointing out that FDX cannot strike. Taking away volume from UPS. All UPS and the Teamsters are trying to do is have FDX governed under the NLRA like UPS so both companies have the same labor laws. It isn't like UPS is trying to get under the RLA to protect them from work stoppages and bust the union. FDX is using the B Bailout site to spin this as a government bail out for UPS to gain support. I have explained this enough here. You can see some of my other posts.
It seemed to me while reading this rant, this relationship FedEx has with it's sub-contractors is eerily similar to that of major/regionals and that you could substitute the phrase, "regional airline" every time you mention "FDX driver"...almost...(underlined some of the similarities)

not the best example, but it's a business model that's not without precedence...something to think about!
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