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UPS Flight 6 Memorial

Old 09-04-2010, 09:15 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by OKLATEX View Post
You are standing upon a shore....somewhere.
A ship before you spreads her white sails and
starts for the blue ocean. She is a beautiful
and strong ship and you watch her until she
hangs like a speck of white cloud just where
the sea and sky come down to mingle with
each other.

Then someone at your side says, "There...
well, well. She's Gone."

Gone Where? From your sight-that's all.
She is just as large in mast and spar as
when she left your shore, just as strong
and able. Her diminished size is in you,
not in her, and while someone at your
side is saying, "She's gone..." there are
other eyes watching her coming and ready
to take up the glad shout, "There she comes."

Ernest K. Gann
OAKLATEX,
I really do need to read Ernie Gann. That quote is nothing short of profoundly beautiful.

chuck
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Old 09-04-2010, 09:20 AM
  #102  
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I hope the IPA really really pushes for something to change (ie. extinguishing systems on our airplanes).
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:14 AM
  #103  
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I hope so too FreightPuppy but it seems like with anything else here it has to be in the contract.
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:56 AM
  #104  
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Without quoting the above posters ... by now we all know this place won't spend an extra cent if it doesn't directly affect the movement of a package.

But enough already ... start another thread, it would go on to many pages of needed safety improvements at UPS and in the entire industry.

Back to honoring our fellow crewmembers ... Every minute of every day that I have spent with my wife and family since finding out this news yesterday has made me realize how special these moments are, even the simple nap in the shade of a late summer afternoon.

May their families find the strength that they need at this time in their lives to overcome the many stages of depression and grief they will feel in the months ahead.

My thoughts and prayers are with them.
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Old 09-04-2010, 01:38 PM
  #105  
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Two extremely sharp guys. Knew Matt very well. Former Marine, very competent, funny, GREAT family man. The IPA truly lost two of our best yesterday. Godspeed...
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Old 09-04-2010, 02:12 PM
  #106  
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I flew many times with Doug, what a great guy! He and Matt will be missed dearly!
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Old 09-04-2010, 03:41 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by frozenboxhauler View Post
Put the computer down and enjoy your new baby! Congratulations!
fbh
Thanks! She's sleeping but I can't help but think about and read about the crash. I just read the IPA email we got and I started bawling. It's so sad. The capt and FO had young kids.
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Old 09-04-2010, 03:50 PM
  #108  
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Default Our tools have not yet replaced an engineer.

Originally Posted by Cargo Man View Post
... Without realizing it you have opened the old argument for keeping a Flight Engineer.
I did intend to point out that this crew faced the worst of scenarios with the least amount of resources: no engineer, no IRO, no jumpseaters, no flight attendants. The engineer position was eliminated by technology; however, the safety equipment was not then re-engineered for the resulting lack of manpower (and womanpower). Flight attendants are not likely to be added to cargo flights. IROs and jumpseaters are currently a matter of chance, depending on the schedule and the day one draws the wildcard of a fire onboard.

Therefore, the only fix in the cargo world, on flights over areas where one can not make an emergency descent and land in 20 minutes (when the statistical fire is uncontrollable), is to add a third pilot to flights that do not currently have an IRO because they are less than 8 hours. I know it's a radical idea, but until the current generation of safety equipment is incorporated into Part 121 aircraft, an extra body is the best resource to find a fire that can be fought and to look over the pilots' shoulders to maintain situational awareness when they are juggling a bag of snakes with checklists and rapidly changing altitudes and airspeeds.

Al Haynes credited his jumpseater for a large part of UAL 232's arrival at an airport, rather than at an off airport location with 100% casualties. We all train to bring whatever CRM resources we have to bear on a problem. Unfortunately for our friends, they had none when they were needed most and the system that should have regulated and invested in proper safety equipment left them defenseless.

I saw a Discovery Channel type show recently on the largest container ship in the world. I forget the dimensions, but it's ginormous. On a ship that the Navy would staff with 800 - 1,000 sailors trained in firefighting and damage repair, this cargo ship had a staff of about 18. If an explosion in the engine room takes out 6 people, now they have 12. It's like the Titanic with too few lifeboats. It was a good idea at the time on paper to a slide rule wielding designer, but in retrospect ... At least if a container ship the size of a battleship goes down, it's not on top of a city. That was probably part of someone's cost benefit analysis in the design.

On many occasions, our industry flies jumbo container ships over sparse areas with all of two people, both of whom are required to adequately control the ship. I hope when my number comes up again, I have someone on the jumpseat to help me keep the fire at bay with our caveman tools while we work to land ASAP. I hope our friends' legacy will be children that bring their mothers joy and changes to a stagnant government and corporate safety culture.
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Old 09-04-2010, 04:06 PM
  #109  
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Rest in Peace, brothers.
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Old 09-04-2010, 04:17 PM
  #110  
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I just learned who was the captain of the flight and I knew him personally. In college, I worked at the country club where he was a member. He and I talked many times about flying and he gave me lots of advice as I went from no time to CFI. He was one of the real nice guys in this world. He just remarried several years ago and had child who is around three or four. Just devasted to hear this.
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