Jetjok

I'm not trying to throw gasoline on an already smoldering pile, but I'm wondering how can UPS, in today's environment, advertise for flight managers, without one of the qualifications being a college degree. I would be the first to argue that one doesn't need to be a college graduate to fly a plane, but I would have expected that UPS would want the cream of the crop, because the job must require other skills than just flying abilities. I can't even imagine any other airline not requiring that degree. And as an outsider looking in, with no dog in this fight, I can honestly say that I would understand why some of your furloughed guys would apply for those management jobs. Being unemployed, in one of the worst times for being without a job, is disheartening, and guys have to do whatever they can so that their families can survive. However, I would hope that if they are hired away from the line, that they would loose their seniority number and date of hire, so that when the IPA absorbs the management pilots, these guys go to the bottom of the list.

Best to you all in this time of turmoil.

JJ

Zapata

Is hiring FQS's during a furlough a violation of the CBA? What sort of limits, if any, are in your contract regarding FQS's used for line flying during a furlough?

Rocco

Z,
It is allowed under our current contract (no one ever thought a profitable company would furlough, when the union/members were taking steps to alleviate the overmanning problem (parking Dc-8's, age 60.....)). The arguments here would be long and pointless to make in a public arena. I can just tell you that this problem will be fixed in the next contract.

I am in a minority that thinks this is a good place to work. Best job I have ever had (Could it be better? You bet! Pilots will complain about anything.) I have many friends that are in management. They don't like what is going on either. I don't agree with the name calling or derogatory remarks about them either. The situation that currently exists was not their doing. It has been years in the making. I believe everyone is getting ready to dig in. Like I said earlier this issue with FQS's flying / hiring will be resolved. Not sure how long it is going to take, but NO ONE is going to sign a contract with the mention of FQS flying with line pilots on furlough.

Times have changed. So will the FQS/IPA relationship.

Rocco

CactusCrew

If they hire someone "flight qualified" but without a college degree, where else will they go ?

They just found someone with a little extra loyality to UPS is all ...

Grumble

I guess I was looking for an answer.... sorry. Moving on.

No flame baiting, just a military guy researching options for the big choice looming. There is tons of info on here about FedEx, but little if any about UPS (beyond hate and discontent). It must not be bad enough for everyone to quit, either that or the pay makes it tolerable.

brownie

Just to make a correction to your statement. You only need to be a CRAP of the CROP to be hired as a manager in ups. We have RJ drivers giving over water line checks and previous jepps revision handlers flying as 75 and airbus captains. Long before i was hired in ups i used to think like you, Thinking you needed to be a sky god to work for ups management or to be promoted to that position and it took me about 6 months to relize as i said you need to be a crap of the crop and willing to scab incase of strike and growing up back stabbing your friends and being rejected by every chick in school including the fat ones to be a manager here.

Fireball

IF we were to be released from mediation during negotions to strike, then the FQS would have to cross picket lines to fly because they would not be protected by the union. If they refused to fly during a strike, UPS would simply fire them. So OFFICIALLY, they have not crossed a picket line (here at UPS, but some have at other airlines), but they ALL know what would be required of them during a strike. The are considered strike protection (and ultra reserves) by UPS, which is why we have such a rediculously high proportion of management pilots relative to line guys. Another reason they are referred to as scabs is because they jump seniority and go straight to the left seat (check airman/assistant chief pilot etc.) as new hires. What other UNIONIZED airline does this? And if this were to happen at YOUR airline, what would you think of these people? Food for thought

Fireball

Grumble, you are exactly right. The only thing that makes this job OK is the pay, the schedule, and the line pilots I fly with. Dealing with the company (crew sched, FQS) is incredibly painful.

CactusCrew

Most of the time ...

FR8TFLYER

Do you want to work for thugs? Apply, best of luck to you! The money is the only positive at this place.