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UPS hiring FQS

Old 02-06-2011, 06:51 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by JustUnderPar View Post
Any UPS "management" working here prior to 1997 is a SCAB. Labeled that way for LIFE. If there happens to be another strike and you are a "manager" then you will be required to SCAB or lose your job. Is this a job for the rest of your life? If it is, good luck. Seriously.
I am sorry that I have peed in the Cheerios, I didn't realize you guys struck in 97. I was flying pax from then until 04. I tried to keep up with the cargo industry. Was it a very short strike that didn't get alot of press? I stated when first inquiring about this situation (a few pages back) if their was a work action and I was there I would quit. There are no jobs for life.
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:52 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by 727574drvr View Post
Pilot7576, Thank you and I understand how you guys feel. Maybe in your next contract something can be done about this; of course they will want the pound of flesh in return. Just as a little different perspective, consider this. We have 80,000 Airline Transport Pilots in this country. I mean the ATP's who do this for a living. There are about 7,500 of the 80k that have been on the street for quite sometime. We are talking about +3 years. The 7,500 I am speaking about have some (what I consider) pretty strong credentials; +10,000 TT, +8,000 Narrow/Wide Body, +5,000 N/W Body PIC (add about 4k each to that for me). 7,500 sounds like a bunch of numbers but WE are not numbers. WE still require O2, food, water, heat, pressure (14.7psi preferred) to live. WE are your collegues, co-workers, some of us life long friends that people don't call anymore due to embarrassment or shame, because they might have to face the reality that this could have easily happened to them. WE are out of unemployment (or imminent), house in foreclosure (sold mine), lights/phone off every other month. WE don't want sympathy: WE want to work to provide for our families. If nothing else, WE are not numbers, WE are fellow Human Beings. This is a sad fact right now. Pilot7576, if you would, do me one favor, do this. The next time you hear someone say "I hate this F%$#ing Place!!!", take a deep breath, pause, and ask this person when they are calm; would they like to trade places with my friends or me? Pilot7576, Should our paths ever cross, I'll buy you a cup of coffee or adult beverage which ever the situation calls for. Our opinions are pretty much the same, just different life situations, that neither had any control of to begin with. Have a great flight, see ya around the campfire, L.
727574drv,
The IPA pilots truly understand the situation and sympathize with the whims of our industry. The irony to me is that you describe exactly the situation accurately, "WE don't want sympathy: WE want to work to provide for our families. If nothing else, WE are not numbers, WE are fellow Human Beings."

So the irony? UPS placed 109 of our pilots on the street who feel exactly as you do who tell us themselves "WE don't want sympathy: WE want to work to provide for our families. If nothing else, WE are not numbers, WE are fellow Human Beings."

We want them back making money for our shareholders, their families, and growing our business for all of our prosperity. UPS is more interested in not growing known profitable business because it is low yield profit. When you make the kind of money UPS makes, Atlanta can choose to be picky about which profitable business' to ply and discard those ventures whose profitable yields are to low. How nice for the beancounters.

So, unlike Fedex, Southern, Atlas, Polar, World, National, Evergreen, Kalitta and all, UPS shuns what they fly profitably. Means less jobs at UPS.
IPA offered the dollars to keep them on the property. UPS played Lucy and moved the football.

Then you have UPS management who wants to hire a handful of FQS' to be the replacement pilots for IPA pilots as super reserves. No one even argues anymore that they are managers. They are FAR only pilots.

Consider this: The FQS issue is unresolved. Worst case, new FQS may be on the street when resolved, in the IPA, or doing some non flying duty for the rest of their UPS career trying to climb a management ladder from a very low starting position outside your lane.

FedEX is getting ready to hire, chances are far better that one would get called and have a successful career at FedEx than as a FQS at UPS. Unless you have a strong management sponsor, would surmise chances are slim for an FQS position anyway.
I'll buy you a coffee or adult beverage too. We are on the same side of this really. If UPS pursued more business, they would be looking to hire you anyway (as a line pilot).
Wish you the best at FedEx and all.
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:24 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by 727574drvr View Post
I am sorry that I have peed in the Cheerios, I didn't realize you guys struck in 97. I was flying pax from then until 04. I tried to keep up with the cargo industry. Was it a very short strike that didn't get alot of press? I stated when first inquiring about this situation (a few pages back) if their was a work action and I was there I would quit. There are no jobs for life.
Salty is a very wise man! I would read every word of his post carefully.

The strike was short. If you run a google search for 97 UPS strike it will give you lots of info. It was a teamsters strike. Everyone was locked out including the pilots. Managers flew up to the FAR limits, then the strike was over.

UPS could be a fantastic job. Like Salty said they chose to place 109 people on the street, when there were alternatives to a furlough. BL came to Anchorage and almost seemed to boast that it was his responsibility for the furlough (he retired the next month, go figure??) This has had an impact on so many peoples lives. For what? There is no good reason.

I would SERIOUSLY look at FedEx WAY before I put in an FQS application at UPS. And I am one of the few that still thinks this is a VERY good job, but it could be a hell of a lot better!!!
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:29 PM
  #64  
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Check out this web site to see the level of arrogance. Some things never change.

Online NewsHour: UPS Strike-- August 19, 1997
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SaltyDog View Post
727574drv,
The IPA pilots truly understand the situation and sympathize with the whims of our industry. The irony to me is that you describe exactly the situation accurately, "WE don't want sympathy: WE want to work to provide for our families. If nothing else, WE are not numbers, WE are fellow Human Beings."

So the irony? UPS placed 109 of our pilots on the street who feel exactly as you do who tell us themselves "WE don't want sympathy: WE want to work to provide for our families. If nothing else, WE are not numbers, WE are fellow Human Beings."

We want them back making money for our shareholders, their families, and growing our business for all of our prosperity. UPS is more interested in not growing known profitable business because it is low yield profit. When you make the kind of money UPS makes, Atlanta can choose to be picky about which profitable business' to ply and discard those ventures whose profitable yields are to low. How nice for the beancounters.

So, unlike Fedex, Southern, Atlas, Polar, World, National, Evergreen, Kalitta and all, UPS shuns what they fly profitably. Means less jobs at UPS.
IPA offered the dollars to keep them on the property. UPS played Lucy and moved the football.

Then you have UPS management who wants to hire a handful of FQS' to be the replacement pilots for IPA pilots as super reserves. No one even argues anymore that they are managers. They are FAR only pilots.

Consider this: The FQS issue is unresolved. Worst case, new FQS may be on the street when resolved, in the IPA, or doing some non flying duty for the rest of their UPS career trying to climb a management ladder from a very low starting position outside your lane.

FedEX is getting ready to hire, chances are far better that one would get called and have a successful career at FedEx than as a FQS at UPS. Unless you have a strong management sponsor, would surmise chances are slim for an FQS position anyway.
I'll buy you a coffee or adult beverage too. We are on the same side of this really. If UPS pursued more business, they would be looking to hire you anyway (as a line pilot).
Wish you the best at FedEx and all.
You are dead nuts on insofar as one thing. We really do agree. I do not have any ambition to be in Airline Management ANYWHERE. I was merely gathering info and such. I would have no illusion that these FQS pilots would be permanent jobs. I would been using it to get a paycheck, maybe a free type or two and when the world starts to spin on its axis again, leave. I know no one in Management there, and its sounds like no one likes working there. I have a few friends at UPS, but most of them I have not spoken with in years. I have a friend that lives here in CAE that is very senior but is out on medical right now. He likes it and can't wait to get back. Actually, I really have a few other first choices above UPS and FedEx. Not knocking either, I like flying cargo, long haul, and don't mind working nights. I actually applied for but didn't even interview for, a part time sort job at the CAE hub over the holidays. One question though, if I could; why is everyone bent out of shape over this when had they read the last TA (the pages W/O $ signs) they could have seen this coming. If this is a violation of the contract, why are ya'll flying? This may seem like a simplistic view, but I have found over the years that when I keep it simple life gets a little easier. At a company I used to fly for guys used to complain to me about our contract all the time and it frustrated me because I got tired of saying; "Didn't you read the Contract before voting yes", "I voted NO". So I am sure this will be an absolute NO NO in the next TA??? Good Luck to you guys. I definetly have no interest. Doesn't sound fun at all....

Last edited by 727574drvr; 02-06-2011 at 07:41 PM. Reason: Sentence Fragment, Spelling, Fatigue!!!
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dogismycopilot View Post
Probably not as old as you, but the guys sitting to my left that used to work at Emory sure complain a lot about getting left in the cold.

From their description of circumstances, Emory was bought by UPS and shut down. They were not offered positions at Brown. If I am off base on this, please let me know. The captians I fly with are never prone to exaggeration

I guess my point was, that while many years removed from what you are going through now, Emory pilots faced all the same struggles and uncertainties that go along with unemployment. In speaking with the 3 former Emory guys I know, they thought they might have had a shot at a job at UPS following what happened between the two companies (again, my history is a little fuzzy, so correct me if I am wrong). For whatever reason, they did not get that opportunity, and ended up on the street.
UPS aquired a company called Menlo, which was what was left of CF Emery after they went bankrupt and where force to turn in their certificate to the FAA over maintenance issues. The ex-CF Emery pilots filed a lawsuit attempting to get numbers at UPS, it failed. All of Menlos freight was being flown by companies like Kitty Hawk, etc.
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 727574drvr View Post
I am sorry that I have peed in the Cheerios, I didn't realize you guys struck in 97. I was flying pax from then until 04. I tried to keep up with the cargo industry. Was it a very short strike that didn't get alot of press? I stated when first inquiring about this situation (a few pages back) if their was a work action and I was there I would quit. There are no jobs for life.
The teamsters struck in 97 and we have a section in our contract that states we don't cross picket lines. We honored the Teamsters picket as did most of the non sched freight companies that UPS tried to get to carry the boxes. UPS management pilots crossed the picket and flew , they where required to fly.
Call them what you like.

By the way the strike lasted two weeks and was national news 24/7

Rocco
UPS claimed they locked everyone out after all of the pilots honored the picket. Some Teamsters, very few, crossed. UPS likes to revise history.
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:31 PM
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i have to agree salty sounds like he has it nailed. Yes it sucks guys are on the street and they are hiring FAR pilots in the guise as managers. Unfortunately the IPA and I guess membership(who voted the last contract in) missed the management loophole???? don't see that it was missed but perhaps more like rolling the dice and not bothering to fight for it after the nice payscale they gave you(it is a very nice payscale) Now guys are throwing the word scab around and to be quite honest, i don't see it. Maybe close the loophole, disallow so many manager pilots and then there will be no issue.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dogismycopilot View Post
Probably not as old as you, but the guys sitting to my left that used to work at Emory sure complain a lot about getting left in the cold.

From their description of circumstances, Emory was bought by UPS and shut down. They were not offered positions at Brown. If I am off base on this, please let me know. The captians I fly with are never prone to exaggeration

I guess my point was, that while many years removed from what you are going through now, Emory pilots faced all the same struggles and uncertainties that go along with unemployment. In speaking with the 3 former Emory guys I know, they thought they might have had a shot at a job at UPS following what happened between the two companies (again, my history is a little fuzzy, so correct me if I am wrong). For whatever reason, they did not get that opportunity, and ended up on the street.
Since UPS didn't buy Emory college, I don't think those guys had a chance.

Emery Worldwide Airlines, however, was shut down several years prior to UPS purchasing Menlo (it was all contractors). EWW had a couple of unfortunate accidents, maintenance issues, and issues with OSHA (couple people ran over by forklifts, etc.). Emery even locked OSHA out until they came back with US Marshalls. I'm sure that went a long way with the government.
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Swedish Blender View Post
Since UPS didn't buy Emory college, I don't think those guys had a chance.

Emery Worldwide Airlines, however, was shut down several years prior to UPS purchasing Menlo (it was all contractors). EWW had a couple of unfortunate accidents, maintenance issues, and issues with OSHA (couple people ran over by forklifts, etc.). Emery even locked OSHA out until they came back with US Marshalls. I'm sure that went a long way with the government.
All too familar, I was flying for a contractor, trying to save what was left of Emory, you know a bunch of rampers and other great people in DAY; CAT, and when they got bought by MENLO, a friend asked me; "What can Brown do for you?" I said take my f#$king job!!!!". Awesome, huh? I was making 100k a year flying a B727 Capt, 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Thanks alot, I could barely feel the first couple of inches.

Last edited by 727574drvr; 02-07-2011 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Grammatical error
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