Originally Posted by golfandfly (Post 954701)

This is not just about "Super Senior Siba lines".

If you want to be informed as possible, spend a few minutes and look at your bidpack AND the bidpacks of other aircraft.

1. I am more familiar with the MD-11 (MEM based). We have various long commuter line trips that fly intra Asia (and to a smaller degree, intra Europe). These trips are usually single departure line trips (good for our large amount of commuters). If MD-10s are based in HKG, how many of these trips will continue? While I'm not big fan of these trips, they tend to go fairly senior. Obviously some people really like them, or at least don't like to commute.

2. Airbus and 757 lines. Notice the DDH international lines? Say goodbye to them. This is the best flying in their systems if you ask me, but we know we all have different likes/dislikes. They usually go senior if that tells you something. I didn't see a direct effect on 727 lines, but as always, $hit rolls downhill. And they are at the bottom of the hill....
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Originally Posted by Cujo (Post 954803)

IMO, with more 777's on the horizon, the system form is going to change and will force these "degradations" you speak of, irregardless of the TA come out....YMMV

Originally Posted by golfandfly (Post 954701)

This is not just about "Super Senior Siba lines".

If you want to be informed as possible, spend a few minutes and look at your bidpack AND the bidpacks of other aircraft.

1. I am more familiar with the MD-11 (MEM based). We have various long commuter line trips that fly intra Asia (and to a smaller degree, intra Europe). These trips are usually single departure line trips (good for our large amount of commuters). If MD-10s are based in HKG, how many of these trips will continue? While I'm not big fan of these trips, they tend to go fairly senior. Obviously some people really like them, or at least don't like to commute.

2. Airbus and 757 lines. Notice the DDH international lines? Say goodbye to them. This is the best flying in their systems if you ask me, but we know we all have different likes/dislikes. They usually go senior if that tells you something. I didn't see a direct effect on 727 lines, but as always, $hit rolls downhill. And they are at the bottom of the hill.

3. If you are telling yourself that you don't like this type of flying or that you can't hold it anyway... These senior guys that will have to change their bidding strategy might just take your Boise line. When you mess with the top of the seniority, a domino effect usually occurs. What I am saying is that losing quality lines will effect all of us, no matter what your seniority number is.

4. Operational issues. Have you ever noticed what happens when someone gets sick in the field in Asia/Europe? There are mucho revisions afterward, many of which provide us with extra pay. Xtra DH pairings are produced to cover the changes. These are usually great trips that aren't productive (unless riding First Class is productive) and are very lucrative. If we have MD crews in Asia, how many of these do you think you will see. It happens much more often than you think.

5. So, as I see it, I am giving up quite a bit. The status quo works much better for me than this TA. The time value of a 3% raise is pennies compared with the better QOL and extra earnings I've seen with our system today. For the life of me, I can't see why anyone could consider signing a contract that reduces our lines and pilots required for a cost of living raise that we will probably see later anyway.

Originally Posted by The Walrus (Post 954841)

While I agree with your analysis of the bid pack degradation, a point that you seem to forget is that no matter whether this is voted down or not, HKG MD11 can and will happen with the changes that the company is offering in this TA. They can change the current FDA LOA to reflect these improvements in HKG without our vote. So the only aspect of this TA that has any validity is the CGN FDA. I still vote no!

Originally Posted by FDXLAG (Post 954847)

Assuming the MEC sign off on the changes after a membership no vote. Big assumption.

Originally Posted by golfandfly (Post 954808)

I agree, the system form will change. But are 777s going to fly lean routes in Europe? Do they want to use them for short haul?

The specific aircraft may change, but unless the company opens new bases, I believe there will still be SIBA type flying. I'd like to hear your thoughts about the way you think the system will change. I am not calling you out here and actually I'd just like to hear another's point of view. It's all speculation, but how do you see it?

Originally Posted by FDXLAG (Post 954847)

Assuming the MEC sign off on the changes after a membership no vote. Big assumption.

Originally Posted by Jetjok (Post 954869)

Please provide us with a rational explanation of your above statement. It will help us understand where you're coming from. Thanks.

JJ

Originally Posted by FDXLAG (Post 954847)

Assuming the MEC sign off on the changes after a membership no vote. Big assumption.