I'm with you on the first part. When we put in VTO inputs for our schedule, there should not be trips to choose from that are no longer "there" due to the conflict guys taking them. Once the conflicts inputs are processed, VTO lineholders should see an accurate picture of what's left.

I don't think your second point on the "rolling" VTO bid is realistic. It sounds great, but I can't see how it would really happen. Plus, if we could do it w/ VTOs, why wouldn't the regular lineholders get it too. Have #1 bid and get awarded his line, then #2 and so on.

The big problem I see would be staying on the timeline. If no one can get their bid processed until the guy before him bids, that's going to be a pretty big bottleneck. What if #1 is over the north Pacific when VTO bidding opens? Everyone else has got to wait until he gets to a computer in Hong Kong?

Conflict bidding and VTOs need to be separate - for sure. Beyond that, I wouldn't be too hopeful, IMO.

One last point, I think we sort or already have a PBS system for VTOs. You put in your scheduling requests (days off, trips, trip types, etc.) and you get a line in seniority order based (loosely in many cases) on those inputs. That's basically what PBS is. I don't think we want the PBS camel's nose under our tent in any way, shape or form.

Gotcha now ;) ... sounds like the VTO bids at FedEx are as primitive (for lack of a better term) as they are here at UPS.

I had PBS prior to UPS. It was just OK ...

Deal-breaker, vacation-killer ...

CC,
I'm sure you were fairly senior to me at Cactus, so our experiences with PBS are different. As junior as I was, it was a nightmare. NO vacation or training conflicts. It's an absolute NO vote at best and a strike issue at worst.
UPSS would make our Q of L worse...if that's possible.

Mid-level FO, early 2000 hire date (P261x). Was that senior ?

I describe PBS as merely OK ... because the PBS experience does vary with position on the seniority list. Like everything else ! It was implemented shortly after I arrived at AWA, fwiw. I remember it was a LONG development process though.

On the other hand, I have yet to enjoy ANY conflict bidding success at Brown, so it is a wash for my sector of the seniority list. Heading into 4th year and only able to hold reserve in ANC to put things into perspective. Conflict bidding means crap to the bottom of our list. I know it will some day ... ;)

That being said, I wouldn't want PBS, just because UPS would want it !

Exactly! AND, could you imagine how they would "EFF" it up just to make it extra miserable?

Do NOT allow PBS anywhere on your property. If you allow it for VTO constuction, the camel's nose is under the tent, and you know what comes next.

PBS will greatly reduce pilots required, eliminate line and crew purity, reduce vacation, etc, etc........I believe DAL has a good PBS system, but it's a tremendous giveback compared to the current FDX system. Ever wonder why the company wants it so badly ?

blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!

The current VTO lines are built by Future Schedules using a PBS system from ADOPT, the same company that also makes the pairing generator we know as the "Optimizer". Your VTO input is simply rendered as an e-mail to the Futures scheduler, who interprets your wishes and enters them into the PBS system. Then the entire batch for a given seat is run at once and the results put back into the system, which you then see on VIPS. In your terms, the camel's nose has been under the tent for 10 years now.

OK, understood, but be very careful when you are offered a __% payraise in exchange for the virtuous PBS. I had 30 years at FDX, and only the last 3 at DAL/PBS.....I would trade systems in a heartbeat.....not trying to stir the pot.
BG