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Old 03-09-2011, 11:20 PM   #11  
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Oh, this was a 777 Captain?

Next.
The senior Captain of the two should get A380 pay
fbh
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:12 AM   #12  
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When FedEx first started flying double crews KIX-MEM the Captain that had FDX18 on his trip was PIC, the Captain with FDX7018 was the Relief Captain. On one of these trips the PIC was junior. When the crew was alerted they were informed that there would be a jumpseater. Actually a FAA Maint. Inspector. The senior Captain had a real problem with this. There was not enough room, the cockpit was too crowded blah, blah. We had another flight that also went to MEM via ANC a few hours later. The inspector agreed to take the later flight. All was fine until the inspector's boss found out about it. The two Captains were called in to explain why the FAA inspector was bumped. The senior guy, the relief Captain, the only guy that had a problem with the 5th guy in the cockpit said "Hey, I was not PIC". The junior Captain, the PIC, had his ATP suspended for two weeks as punishment for bumping a FAA inspector. It was after that event that the most senior Captain was PIC. The senior Captain system then caused problems when they started building trips that were D/H MEM-CDG, operate CDG-Subic, D/H Subic-KIX, operate KIX-MEM. Some had a real problem with this system.
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:37 AM   #13  
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I, for one had a big problem with that lousy system, because in virtually every case, if the senior captain had wanted the original trip pairing, all he (or she) had to do was bid it. That way, they would have been the senior captain on the trip, and a junior captain would have gotten the relief captain pairing. I disliked the idea that a guy could be First-Classing all over the world, just to join another crew in mid-pairing, and take over the PIC duties, for a leg or two, then disappear once again, to deadhead somewhere else, to again take over a flight pairing.

It happened to me in February, 2003, when FedEx started flying into Kuwait in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. They were asking for volunteers to do that flying, and so I did. The trip went MEM - DOV- FRA-OKBK (Kuwait International), then on to DXB (Dubai Int'l), then back to CDG and finally back to MEM. When we showed for the FRA - OKBK - DXB leg, we met another captain in ops, who informed us that he was going to be the PIC. Besides really ruining the cockpit harmony we had established, this guy sat in the seat the entire time, and flew a lousy airplane. We had to go around at Kuwait, because he had gotten too close to a C-130 on final, then he demanded a right turnout, instead of the left turnout that tower had assigned, because he "knew" that Iraqi was "over there to the left somewhere". As well, he didn't allow the F/O to fly the second leg, as he took that one too. Then after clearing customs in Dubai, he immediately left the terminal, found our hotel van and told the driver to depart for the hotel. By the time the F/O and I got outside, the van was gone and we had to take a cab. Needless to say, that put a rather bad taste in my mouth for the remainder of the time I flew as a Captain.

JJ
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:12 AM   #14  
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There is no such thing as a PIC pairing.
There will be if this TA passes, like others have said the Block 5 rep was wrong on this subject in his letter. Even today (pre-TA) the FOM does have this screwed up procedure in place for double augmented flight. This TA settlement and the wording change in 22.B.2 of the CBA finally put this bad policy to bed.

Seniority applies in every case listed in 22.B.2, but should have never been allowed to be utilized twice with respect to bidding lines, first pick the trip you want and then use your seniority to bump a CA flying his butt off on a full crew pairing and disrupt the entire apple cart.

What's next for the seniority system, parking and bumping spots in democrat by seniority? Bid what you want to fly (or not if you want a monster D/H trip).
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:38 AM   #15  
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The senior captain should be PIC. Period. It doesn't matter if he's on m/u, sub, reserve, etc... It doesn't matter if he's a bad captain. That is how seniority works. I don't care if you bid that line!
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:41 AM   #16  
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The senior captain should be PIC. Period. It doesn't matter if he's on m/u, sub, reserve, etc... It doesn't matter if he's a bad captain. That is how seniority works. I don't care if you bid that line!

BS... Bid a flying line or bid the easy DH's that's your choice and your seniority rights... Period. Once the flying starts you are SOL..so sit back..relax and don't burn the dinner...
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:50 AM   #17  
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Maybe the senior capt should be able to just take a trip from the junior capt line if he wants it.

I think that the senior capt used his seniority to bid the rf2 line, and he should be happy with it.
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Old 03-10-2011, 06:26 AM   #18  
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Concur.

CAVU/very senior Captain
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Old 03-10-2011, 06:38 AM   #19  
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I agree also.. you want ff miles bid the RF2 pairing and sit back and watch..
ALso a very senior capt on 777..
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Old 03-10-2011, 06:46 AM   #20  
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The senior captain should be PIC. Period. It doesn't matter if he's on m/u, sub, reserve, etc... It doesn't matter if he's a bad captain. That is how seniority works. I don't care if you bid that line!
Seniority establishes bidding order. It does not establish succession to the Royal line, Rank, or any other delusions of grandeur that some one may have. Bid what you can hold, then deal with it. We don't need to go by date of hire, date of birth, d1(k length or any other B.S. "This is not the military, General. I mean Captain."
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