Mike, it's not the math that's wrong.


Pay was NOT a cornerstone issue, and that's exactly why we refused the Company's offer. What they wanted to do was PAY more to IGNORE all - - that's right ALL - - of our cornerstone issues by simply keeping the old work rules, the old scope, the old retirement, and the old health care just as they were. Apparently they thought they could distract us by offereing to pay us an extra nickel. They miscalculated.


I believe the MEC would have been remiss to even entertain such a notion.



Would I like more money? Sure, but not at the expense of regressive health care that will sop up any pay riase. Not at the expense of work rules that extract productivity out of my body that will make retirement a moot issue. It's a package deal - - all of the issues go together. Try not to focus on a single aspect - - we'll all find one we don't like. Try instead to get the big picture of everything in the package. It's a lot of reading, and it will involve a lot of discussion and hard work on our part. Let's do our part responsibly.




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Interesting Points, but...
 

Good points, all, but NO pay difference (actually a pay regression over the TA) from the last contract doesn't sit very easy with me. I'm not a one issue guy, but I don't see a 1% increase in our B Fund and our retirement asses still hanging on the A Fund as much of a benefit. Just ask Delta, US Air, United, etc... Additionally, the Work Rules cornerstone doesn't seem to be all that great either. No MPPD increase and, effectively, no increase for those of us flying Out-N-Backs. A MPPD of 6.4 would have made all flying equal with that 3.75 trip rig, which, oh by the way, doesn't take effect for how long...?

Just to touch on the pay issue one more time. What should I do with my "One more day of Retro Pay" tag? Should I just add to it "... or a little bonus that won't **** off the company" or maybe just take it off my bag...

The question is not that we accept less money for improvements in the other cornerstone issues, its whether we've received enough on those (other) issues to warrant a (IMHO) short fall on the pay issue.

Now that's well put!

Ah...finally. Remeber it was RETIREMENT, HEALTHCARE.....2 different issues...not RETIREE HEALTHCARE.

I agree completely. Also, nobody has mentioned the trip rig change to 3.75:1. That is a pay raise also. Granted it doesn't appear to apply to the hub turners on the Boeing but, for most, the Boeing is a transitional aircraft on the way to the widebody and TAFB trips. Block over 8 is paid extra vs. the old over 10, OTP is paid at 125%.

I'm somewhat disappointed that we had to basically fight for a COLA. The military gets handed that every year but we also have work rules, scope and our health care premiums to negotiate. Maybe we could have gotten another 1% a year but payed a 300% increase in health care insurance.

We have a NC and MEC unanimously supporting this TA. Let's wait for the roadshows and get our concerns answered before we shout out "NO" votes.

So, soes UPS have a 3.75 to 1 trip rig that applies to everyone - that includes hubturners??

It does not necessarily mean a pay raise.

1. First the Hub turn thing is not just for Boeings. It is for all A/c that leave/arrive MEM on day 1 of any trip....

2. All of our Aircraft have schedules that hub-turn through MEM.

3. Don't compare what an interntional trip looks like today and apply the 1-3:75 rig to claculate pay. The optimizer will extract it's wrath. Many folks made that same mistake under the current contract when we went from 1-3:75 to the 1:4 with the higher hourly rate...........

True a trip that is gone 225 hours TFB will pay 60 hours under 1-3:75 verses
56:25 fo 1-4:00. Wait til you see what you have to do to earn that 3/12 extra hours...........

It was actually 3.43-1 not 3.75 to 1. That equated to 7 hours pay per day (even for out and backs) The new conversion will equal 6.4 (even for out and backs) They didn't have mppd under the flight crew handbook rules either and the minimum pay was 7 hours per trip.

You are correct, that was a type-o on my part (FCH was trip rig was 1: 3.43)

You are also correct about Min Pay per Day, MPPD. We never had it and still don't.

We did have Min Pay per Duty period or MPDP when departing /returning to BASE or a turning though a designated HUB. It was 3.5 hours under FCH and 3.0 hrs under current contract.

Under the FCH out/backs did not pay 7 hours they paid 6.4 hrs

Under the current contract Out/backs from Domicile pay 6 same as a Hub turn.

Under the TA Out/backs and Hub turns will still pay 6 hours, not 6.4 as you insinuated.