machz990

Since you're spun up on this issue why don't you go find another union that went to agency shop on the property and then had the company fire all employees that didn't pay dues. Happy hunting and please report back with your findings!

pinseeker

Nope, Scope, Work Rules, Health Care, and Retirement, not Pay. Of the four cornerstones, which one didn't see improvement. Yes, we are paying a little more for Health Care, but that was always expected. We didn't want to pay 400% more like the company offered and, by the way, that $430/month the company offered is what some of the ramp agents that I talk to are paying.

clutch

..the two schedule improvements..8 hours vice ten on hard time teq's for pay....3.75 trip rig for tafb only.....can and will be largely negated by the optimizer..i have flown 90% internationally for almost 9 years here...it is my choice..this is not personal...we now fly most int trips...and get paid about 15 to 20% less that we did before the cassell contract....that will probably change to about 12 to 15% less as now any leg in excess of 8 hours gets paid..only for the hours over 8...the number of trips effected are about four or five only...pacific to hnl...an extra 30 min;s..hnl to syd..an extra 1 and 30...kix to mem...and in the winter europe to mem....no address of the effect of flying 5 duty days and getting paid for 4 or three duty days and getting paid for two..etc....it is a very very small improvement..but scheduling improvements were 5 to one over pay as the most important factor for this ta...and it seems that scheduling improvements were the one thing not addressed here..without reinstatimg min pay per day..and we did lose it last contract...all we do will be optimized out...most conus tafb trips..will simply be changed to daily duty rig trips and ..guess what...trip rig doesn;t apply anymore....i feel we sold out on work rule improvements...no i'm sure of it....for other interests....just can't get around it...

machz990

Well let's see what I found in 5 minutes of perusing next month's bidpack for trips over 8 BH. These are city pairs and built into many international trips.

CDG - SFS 12:46
KIX - MEM 12:14
HNL - SYD 10:04
FRA - MEM 10:15
TPE - ANC 8:44
KIX - OAK 9:35
MEM - CDG 8:27
CDG - MEM 9:58
MEM - NRT 13:44
MEM - HNL 8:45
HKG - ANC 9:36
ANC - PVG 10:00
PVG - ANC 8:44
SFO - NRT 10:59
FRA - EWR 8:23
SZX - ANC 9:35

And I won't go into many of the multiple legs.........

HKG - KIX - ANC 10:18
CDG - FRA - BOM 9:11
CDG - STN - EWR 8:55
PVG - ICN - ANC 9:28
HKG - NRT - ANC 10:20

Do your research.

clutch

..thanks for your input here..and these trips will all pay more..and should...that's a good improvement...i'll try and get more info and be more patient until all the changes in this ta are explained as to how they will effect us all in a practical sense...i know it is an improvement..i guess i was hoping for more scheduling improvements..and initially very dissapointed,,.but ...the more i have this ta explained to me...the more i can see the definite improvements over what we have now...take care...

130JDrvr

Clutch,
How do you figure we get 15-20% less for flying the same trip than we did before our 1st contract?

Also,
WE NEVER HAD MIN PAY PER DAY!

Past....

fecav8r

You tell him roomy.....

Siggy

Did we really have min pay per day before? It slipped by me if we did but I'm a Marine too.

130JDrvr

<--- Not a Marine.

We never had Min Pay Per Day.


Past....

clutch

...1st...this ta has alot of very good improvements...it is def better than the contract we have now...and i will vote for it....but..we did have min pay per day before the current contract...i talked many times with george sees..and george made many many public statements verbally and in writing at the time that if we give up min pay per day..that we would be working in some cases more days..for no more pay..or less..i used to fly dc-10 international and around the world trips before this current contract...any leg over 7 hours..which used to be what our trip rig paid...was paid for..we used to get the highest of either trip rig..duty rig, or hard time if it was more than trip rig...per day....this was one thing that we went for this time..and we got our hard time pay reduced from 10 hours to 8..any block over 8 hours now will be paid and not washed out...that is a great gain...and will help alot along with the increased trip rig to 3.75....example..i just flew an around the world trip..it paid tafb of 72 hours... 12 days.we flew mem to hnl...hnl to syd...syd to sbc...sbc to del...del-bom-dxb...dxb-cdg...cdg-mem...before the current contract...every leg over 7 hours would have been paid..the days we set..we would have been paid trip rig..no trip rig washout....therefore we would have been paid around 8 hours more at 7 hours a day..and 11 or 12 more..(i am not real great at math )...with a 6 hour pay day rig...so we have to work an extra 2 days to make up the pay difference...now with the 8 hour block pay provision and 3.75 trip rig we will recover alot of this back....great work...not min pay per day per se..but def in the right direction...i would have liked to see a min pay per duty prov that would help the guys who fly the 1st and last days of a week long trip and get tafb for the day which credits them a couple of hours pay...and i think we will be in a better position next time around to get something like this...i know we started out working for a correction to this...and the tafb(trip rig) increase will help this alot....so...all in all this is a great step for us and i'm going to support it..but as far as min pay per day?...we did have it..we lost it in the cassell contract..and are moving in the right direction to make up for it...take care...semper fi....ps...i am speaking only for myself in this...and am, after studying this ta....and conversing with folks who know alot more about the ta than i do..support it wholeheartidly...(did i speell that right?)...there's great things in this ta for everyone....let's vote for it and move forward..towards those machine guns straight ahead of us...