FDX - Vacation buy-back and R-line question
 

I was awarded a reserve line for Sept and can conflict it with 3 vacation days that would leave me with about 40 buy-back hours. Here's my question - I can't find the option to communicate that intent in VIPS, and my notification indicates that they will just expand my days off to use up all my hours. Any help from you guys on where i need to go to fix this? Thanks!

I'd call your futures scheduler (maybe after I called the union?) ...

When you have vacation and are awarded a reserve line, what your awarded vacation conflicts with is mostly irrelevant. You will have the awarded number of days (7, 8, or whatever) times R-day value (4:33hr per day for my jet) as a minimum. You can take more days if you want, using the formula in the CBA, but you can't take less. Then they reconstruct your reserve line, minus the days of vacation you used, and not on those awarded days. Take 7 days, and for a five week month, you will still have 12 days of reserve (8 days for a 4 week month.)

VTO is worse as they take your vacation at 6 hr per day, and then build a line around it, even if it's all R days. The only way you can take less days than your award is to get awarded a flying line and conflict with less flying, if possible.

Thanks guys - probably another reserve item that we need to be looking at for next negotiations...

Or not.

If everyone took their vacation we'd have more CA's and would need to hire more pilots.

It appears to me that you might have some luck in this area by not extending your vacation. That way they only charge you for 4.5 hrs/vacation day. The other 1.5 hours/day are then available for vacation buy back.

It amazed me when I found out how many of our pilots sell back the max vacation buy back every year. I have gone negative every year since I arrived in '01. Have the guys actually seen how much taxes ares taken out from the govt. when that check comes in from selling it. I try to tell people time is money and you cannot make more time so enjoy your time off, unless your one of those loooooosers(me,me,me,me) who have no life except the cockpit and *****s around the world. And unfortunately this company is filled with many of them.

But I guess when they do sell back I get called less on reserve. :)

Sorry - my point was there is an inequity in how reserve and secondary lines are used vs. regular lines. I'd love to take all my time off, but I'd also love to replace the air conditioning system in my house that just croaked. Guess I'll just have to bid HK Capt.

So what youre saying is that if someone sells back some of his vacation he is a loser and if you go negative in your vacation bank you're a real cool guy. Hank, I like your avatar but you're a real dumba$$. You do realize that if you take an Rday off for every vacation day you can get about 1 and a half hours of vacation buy back. And you still get plenty of time off. And, no. I dont have *****'s around the world and, yes I do have a life.

It's all about choices that you decide to make in this job.

That's a little rough, bottom line is that people selling back vacation means less need for crews on property. No way around that.

It's all about choices as you say but it's a slippery slope, I mean how many guys try to justify flying every day of the month or flying DPs with BS logic. Food for thought.

We DO NOT need to fix vacation. We must never open that section. If we do, it will only get worse.

The only pilots I've ever talked to that didn't like our vacation system, were those that don't understand it and flunk bidding in a vacation month.

fecav8r,

You've got a reputation for being a good guy, but ... I'm sure you're smart enough to realize that you can Extend your vacation during Reserve months and still use up all (and extra) of your vacation hours. I have done it MANY times.

Vacation during Reserve months is VERY CONFUSING. I recommend everyone call their futures scheduler and talk with them.

And ... I agree than we could lose big time if we EVER open the vacation section during negotiations.

Mark

Can you not pick the days to remove that are consecutive to the awarded vacation or not pick them during the conflict/input window and not use whatever vacation days that do not conflict?

Hi Life, it's too late for this one as the window closed at 1200gmt but for the next time, if you bid a reserve line, here's the process:
-VIPS
-Bid Period Processing
-Vacation Adjustment
-Vacation Expansion
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
fbh

Simple answer - NO

If you have 7 days of vacation - 7 R days will be removed from your reserve line.

You can also use the vacation expansion option and remove more but never less than the awarded vacation days.

Why would we want to look at this??? This is not a negative!

If you need the extra cash - pick up a few stbys on your days off :)

..................................+1

Technically, its Vacation Extension for reserve line holders (7.G.3.e). Expansion is for regular line holders only (7.E.3).:cool:

That's what I meant to say :) I just did it for SEP and still typed the wrong word :(

Mark,
I know very well how the vacation system works in regard to reserve. My ire is due the the fact that the poster called any one who didnt use their entire vacation bank a loser and then went on to join that with having hookers around the world due to the fact you dont have a life. My post was to refute the fact that there are many reasons why people do things here, and just because they dont do what you think they should that they are a loser. I know a lot of folks that have kids in college and that little check for vacation buy back comes in real handy for Spring semester tuition. If you want to use your entire vacation bank, knock yourself out. If you dont, good for you too. I dont think youre a loser either way.
Otis

I agree - I'd love to use all my vacation, just had an opportunity to have a relatively painless few extra bucks arrive for an unexpected expense. Doesn't make me a DP flyer or STD carrier...as far as I know...:eek:

I've helped a lot of people prepare for jobs at other places, but what strikes me as incredibly different about FedEx is the tremendous amount of flexibility our system has. Not only can you fly a variety of trip types, trip lengths, domestic/international, day/night, commuring & DH/local base launches, overnights/out and backs, but you can also scale the amount of work you do up or down to an extent unmatched at most companies.

Along with that, our ability to max out our pay, or minimize our time away, is IMHO completely different than at most companies. I know a Delta new hire that has been "counseled" for dropping trips, and getting ready of the "sticky booger" trips at SWA can also be difficult. I won't claim to be an expert on the ins and outs of their system, but I know whenever I get in a discussion with pilots at other companies I get a lot of "really? You can do that?..." responses.

So--for your money chasers...I get it. I'm one too. I've got 3 kids to put through college and likely three weddings to pay for. I have expensive hobbies, and big dreams, and I really, really like flying around the world doing what I do. Don't like it? Bid your own line and do what you want.

Time off guys? Why can you drop those trips? What allows us to have this flexibility? Many times, its that dude over to your left or right who will scarf up an extra trip like a dog will grab a table scrap hitting the floor. That guy may not live like you do, but he helps make your lifestyle possible. Calling him a ***** really doesn't hurt him (he doesn't care) and if you take his ability to grab that trip away you may be missing that next softball game for your daughter or camping trip with the family you wanted when you cannot drop or trade out of it.

Another wrinkle is a leaner crew force might mean a slightly slower seat progression, but also more insurance during downturns. I don't think any of us want the 4a2b debacle again in our careers, and if we fatten up to look like a United or Delta manning model, then we need to be prepared for United or Delta type furloughs and downgrades when bad economic cycles hit. I hope we never get so "fat" we have to dip below guarantees again if things go south.

Personally, I love the ability to scale up or down on my work to meet my own agenda. I've had months I have worked ZERO, and I've had months I've gone to work every week. I still have a ton of make up hours left trips I dropped for military or family reasons, and while I probably won't ever make them all up the fact is someone hired the same time I was has had the same chance to grab those hours.

So--next time you are mad somebody sold back some vacation (which is a contractual right, BTW...any of you can do it) and your upgrade has slowed, realize the same system may have kept some of you off the street in 07-09 and may again allow you to hang on to your current seat when guys at other airlines are going from Capt to FO or from a widebody to a narrowbody. There are a lot of guys hired here 92-00 who had the chance to bail for other good jobs at UAL, AA, or DAL, but chose to stay. When I ask many why they stayed instead of going for (at the time) more money at the other places, the answer they always gave was "stability". The fact our company generally does not push people in the wrong direction (again...our recent 4a2b pain aside) adds both financial and emotional value to a career at FedEx. If you want to criticize any part of the system, realize the whole machinery is intertwined and you often cannot have the only the parts that benefit you without having a tradeoffs as well. I think most of us appreciate the system here, even when it doesn't work perfectly for us, understanding that in the big picture we all win if we preserve the ability to work how we want.

DPs? Different subject. The SIG needs our help. Bad trips hurt all of us--Q of life guys or money guys too.

Just my take...of course I may be wrong.

Albie, quit #$%^ing up the rock fight with logic! :D

Cheers, good post.

Sorry, thread creep
 

Question; I'm about 32 hours in the hole for next year, are there any negative ramifications? I could always do a make up vacation trip but is it worth doing? I usually get it down to about zero. Thank you in advance.
fbh

I'd think the only negative would be if you didn't have any hours leftover for a future vacation period, but you should be able to avoid that. My understanding is you can just continue to go in the hole every year. As for a MUV trip, maybe if it was a nice trip that you wanted to fly and didn't want to use your make up bank.

This is true, I've been in the hole every year since 2000. The only caveat is that you need to have at least 00+01CH of Vac in your Vac bank to be able to use a vacation week, but you can use the whole number of days allowed. Also, many don't know that you can reduce the footprint of your last Vac week to match you available hrs if you like. Example, if I have only 12 hrs left in my bank, I can reduce my number of V days to 2, instead of 7 (or however many are scheduled).

I will have 2+00 hrs left in my VAC bank after my Vac next month. I have 7 days of Vac in Nov. I can reduce my footprint mown to 1 or go in the hole. The only time I've done MUV was a few yrs ago when I was -3CHs in my VAC bank with another week to go. I did 6CH of MUV to get back to a positive balance then went in the hole with my last week of Vac.