As I said before, the company settles when they want something or they need the PR. Until we have some union leadership that recognizes when the company wants something or more than 32% of the membership recognizes the company wants something; yep I'll take the 3%. Because that is all we are going to get anyways.

The last time we were in negotiations we just had our rumps greased by 4A2b. How unified were we then. If not then, when?

At any one time we have 33% of the pilots working on their high 5. The next contract that will be me, I understand the motivation. It will never be painful for the company. 4A2b proved that.

Tuck,
Well thought out response to Albie. Although I see things more in his direction. To answer your question, no I wouldn't advocate the 3% forever to stay out of section 6, but I do advocate to take this one. The reason is I believe what the negotiating committee is telling me and I think progress is being made. If the information being sent out was stag net, then I'd be with you. Next January, hopefully it will be very close. So when we do go to section 6 it is almost a stroke of the pen. I just don't think we will be any closer next January if we go to section 6 now. I actually think the bad blood would slow down the process. JMHO. Although a risk, I think we have a unique opportunity to try to work in good faith towards a better contract. We have a bunch of firsts going on with the new sheriff in town.

Not sure how many contract negotiations you have been through here, but we are still relatively young compared to others. I have been here since the very first which got voted down and then took almost 3 years to get one that was essentially the same. The only reason I reference this is although I think many need to get over it, there is still a lot of bad blood amongst ourselves over growing pains from past contracts/negotiations. Also, we are finally having some of the super koolaid drinkers retire (the I remember Fred coming to the christmas party) guys and leadership (captains) roles replaced with more people that believe in unification of the crew force.

I guess I cautiously optomitstic about this round and think we have a chance to make it better but by angering the majority of the crew force (toward the union) by turning this down right now would not be the prudent thing to do.
JMHO
Pakage

Albie,

I guess I agree with most of your post.

I still think we had some leverage with the Euro FDA. How much, I don't know. But the company wanted the base. I think we should have tried to close up a few problem areas. 4.A.2.b. absolutely should have been one of them. Whenever the company can reduce our guarantees whenever they want, it isn't much of a guarantee. Some small potatoes like accepted fares and real time trip trading should have been addressed. They aren't big ticket items but are important to many of us in terms of quality of life.

But here we are now, and I agree that we should take the 3%. It wouldn't ruin my day if we didn't, but I don't think the company has a vested interest in negotiations now.

What kills us, as usual, is unity. We have none. We can't seem to put away our own particular short term needs for a long term plan that would benefit the association. "I'll fly that DP, it isn't illegal, and it fits my schedule." It's that type of attitude that saddles us with crap trips. We can say the same thing about the 777. Dave Webb hinted that we shouldn't bid the airplane without a pay rate, and of course we know how that turned out. Me, me, me.

Our real leverage is withholding our services from the company. I'd bet if we did strike that 30% or better would cross the line immediately. So, unfortunately, we can all talk about what should be done but it's all talk. We have too many selfish individuals that simply care about their next month's paycheck to want to improve the workplace.

That said, take the 3%.

many level headed perspectives. I lived thru the ual contract 2000 process. The NC worked thru sections and negotiations drug out for well over a year+.

As the crew force began to get frustrated at the pace, they eventually became unified at the major tenants of what UAL ALPA was negatioating for. For the most part the vast majority finally put aside the fact that 100% of their pet desires may or not have been included, accepted that concept of the good of the whole and got unified.

LCA's stopped doing IOE, nobody worked on their days off (picking up open time- trading for an equivalent number of days was deemed "ok"), the wheels fell off the flight shcedule wagon, and we had a signed contract within a month. There was a whole lot more to it (USAir acq, Dubinsky etc), but from my perspective, once the 99% majority got on board and unified in flying their sked, and nothing more, contract compliance and nothing more- we got our contract.

We know the company likes to run "lean", and at times they are reliant on pilots flying on their days off, draft, vlt etc. We can legally withold those services, (unlike sick outs, strikes etc) without being released. It took some "education" with memeber to realize that if we had a new contract that they would have better pay & working conditions, and would not have to work on their days off to earn more pay, but they would have to make a short term sacrifice, for a long term gain.

Eventually they "got it", and we got a contract.

I agree with FDXLag in that it takes both parties to agree and sign a contract. If either one feels that it is not in their own best interest, then there is no mandate that they must sign.
IMHO, the company does not feel economically compelled to sign immediately. When that will happen, again IMHO, will be after the world economy settles down and the company economists are comfortable with predicting either stagnant growth or some growth. As long as the company economists are whispering about weak global economies, the company will take a highly conservative approach to any legal document that may change or increase any type of expenses (pay rates; accepted fares; ULH bonuses; 777 pay rates; deviation banks; programming time to allow "real time" anything).
The company is probably going to hold out until it is reasonable for them, in a business and economic sense, to sign anything binding. The general thought on the world economy is that we haven't seen the bottom yet, so we should take the 3% and stay with our negotiations process before we enter RLA section 6 negotiations.

ChuckTurpen: The NMB has three members, and all seats are filled. This is the board that deals with our issues when negotiating.

You are thinking of the NLRB. It is a 5 person board, and three seats are unfilled. It does not have a quorum, and cant hear cases until at least one additional seat is filled. This group deals with unfair labor practices, and groups trying to unionize.

They are different. But I'm not a lawyer, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night either.

No, I have a list of improvements I"d like to see. Most involve commuting and deviation banks, as I'm a (happy) commuter. I'd like a better B-fund. I know our A plan is well funded, but I'll sleep better if I can max out my 415C limits each year "just in case". However, based on the issues addressed in briefings by the chairman, former NC, and current NC, I'm willing to table those issues a tad longer. Keep in mind--I think a lot of folks are taking notes...the pilots, the NMB, other carriers, and ALPA National to see if this actually works. If it does, we've gotten what we wanted without some of the cost/risk of the alternative methods. If it does fail, then the other side has made clear they were never serious about moving forward, and I think that will only steel the pilots resolve as we go into section 6.

I have yet to see anyone post anything about the cost of being wrong......everything about this situation is speculation...EXCEPT ..... Taking the 3 %. There is zero speculation in that, it is guaranteed.

There is zero chance we will have an agreement this time next year and zero chance we will get released to self help within the next several years.......

There is a 100% chance we will keep negotiating even if only sporadically and a 100% chance we will do it with more in our pockets.

Everyone needs to call their friends, all of them, and barrage your reps with your opinions.

WM

You are correct. The link is still good for the 20 cases ahead of us at the NMB.