UPS vs FED EX contract
 

Just wondering.... I have read quite a few of your threads to gain info on UPS. Thanks for all the good info. I have not seen any data on the comparison of UPS and FED EX contracts. Can any of you tell me why only just over 50% of UPS pilots said yes to theirs, and 95% of FED EX guys said yes to theirs? What are the big differences?

My head hurts just thinking about it, sorry but I can't stand the pain of following this thread. You guys are on your own with this one. Enjoy.

This is easy. FDX pilots are 80% YES men. They have never had any strength. Just look back to 1998-1999. The whole city of Memphis wanted to burn their houses. They just Tag team on UPS's contract again. And this is after they Chucked us with a 216 an hour opener. The IPA was 265 an hour opener. Then Linda of the NMB told us to go pack sand.

And I will add, the Coporate culture is way better at FDX. They dont hate there employer like many do up in SDF.

Waiting for the incoming. But it is still true.

Didn't you guys settle first?.:confused: The only difference between the two management styles is that at fedex, management is smiling in your face when they're sticking the knife in your back. I would have been perfectly happy with 266 bucks an hour.;)

Yeah, and we don't have to wear brown uniforms - AND hats!:p

This FedEx vote was a vote to show that our union is strong as much as it was a vote for the contract. The contract is solid. Our UPS friends that like to think that we somehow forced a payrate are kidding themselves. We all know that the payrate doesn't matter, it's the workrules behind the payrate that will make the W-2 go up. The last time I checked FedEx wasn't at the table when UPS was coming up with their contract. To say that we forced a payrate on them is, well....stupid. We have an incredible vacation policy. Why didn't that section of our contract get forced on UPS? This was FedEx's first real contract. There is a large group of pilots here that wanted to send a message that this process will work in the future and that is why you saw such a large approval. That isn't to take away from the contract. I think we did very well.

And I thought I was on Flightinfo.com for a second.........I guess I am just not one of those "YES men" you are talking about.
Tag team your contract?.......come up with something better than that.

I have an opinion on this, (otherwise I guess I wouldn't be on this board):rolleyes:
I think that most FDX guys anticipated a long delay if the TA was voted down. They wanted to lock in the improvements offered. We had worked since '99 on an contract that needed improving. That and we wanted to keep our Union intact. Because a NO vote could have seriously damaged it.
I believe the two contracts will produce very similar W-2's for a given number of days at work. And that is really the point, regardless of how much guys on here argue this point vs. that one.
JMHO

I tell ya what. When our next contract comes up for ratification we'll let the rest of the industry vote for ours and we'll cast our vote for outside carriers in like manner. It's up to each carrier to support their negotiators and then vote for what's best for them.

This hogwash that your's is this and ours is that doesn't float for me. There will always be certain sections that we'd like to have from other carriers and some sections that other carriers would like to have like ours. But it's called negotiations, not a shopping spree.

'nuff said

I seriously doubt that:D :D

Ummmm, no. Not on this contract nor on the first one. We have much better work rules. Maybe if you guys considered giving up some of that $265/hr and asked for better work rules your collective lives might be better. And those rules will make my W-2 just as good (if not better) than yours.

It's really all about the work rules. That's why one of the basic premisses is that you never give any of them up when you renegotiate your contract.

Get some better work rules.

UPS 56% favor, while FDX 94% favor....

One has to wonder just how much Executive Council Union Leadership has to play in the outcome of the ratification process. Being a FDX guy, my perception of my leadership was: informed, pragmatic, businesslike, and stern with the company. Hearing some of the stories from UPS fellows out in the system, seems the group was plagued by some discontent then a turnover in leadership.

The fact it was 56% is a BIG indicator that the UPS group, as a whole, is not on the same sheet of music as to the direction of the group. Not trying to be negative, or throw stones at all here. It's just my impression. Heck, to me, the stronger IPA does it only helps to keep up with the Jones'. I do think the MGT at each company reacts strongly to what happens on the other side of the fence with "labor".

In the end, I still read my contract TA before it was put to vote. I knew what we were asking for (OCT table position). In the end it was reasonably close to what BC put out there for us. I am MOST happy that we had a high participation rate, it shows we're finally "engaged" as opposed to our past history's passivity. And in the end, "94% favor" sends the strongest message yet: MY NEGOTIATOR SPEAKS FOR ME! Getting that point across to MGT is priceless!

2cents.

No need to cry too long. We'll be back at the table in 4 yrs and will have done all the leg work for you (UPS) when your 5 yr deal expires:p

Very well said.

Probably more like 6 to 6 1/2 years by the time manangement drags their feet and screws with you guys.

The grass is greener here, for now
 

This thread is like a discussion on who's wife is prettier. :rolleyes: Both contacts are available to read on airlinepilots.com, look'em over and you decide. Lots of things are very similar, many that are different are hard to quantify, some are just hard to convert different approaches to the same (or close) solution.
Lets agree that life is better here than some places we came from or (in the past) wished we worked for. ;) Tomorrow is another day, we'll see who's on top of the heap than. :eek:

I don't know about wives..but your Avatar is definitely prettier

Here's what I heard
 

At one of the FDX ALPA roadshows, someone stood up and asked, "How come the UPS signing bonus (we were all sure he was about to say "is so much bigger?") ... " BC cut him off and said, "Let's not go there. Every section of this contract is better than UPS's." He then proceeded to give numerous examples.

Basically he said UPS negotiated to get to the OLD FedEx contract in everything except hourly pay rates.

Mark

Baaaaaaa
 

I like to think our avatars are a subliminal message to our true sexual interests! :eek: :D

I've looked over the UPS contract and I don't see it being inferior to the FDX contract. Some sections are different and some, (I think) are better. I'll beat my chest in triumph after I see the extra grid money BC said is in our new work rules. Dam sure don't understand them by reading it. :o

I think this thread is a healthy discussion. To me, it shows that UPS and FEDEX finally have the industry leading contracts. We are the most productive and the best paid in the industry. That being said, we are due every penny we get. How many people can say, my desicion last night to move the freight, saved our company X# of millions of dollars? If we so inclined, we could simply let a single fart and cost UPS-Fedex a s##t load of money. We earn every penney we get.

Wow. I am in trouble!

And about UPS or FedEx......who ever calls first! ;)