Avoiding red eyes/int'l at FDX/UPS
 

Yeah, I know, an oxymoron. ;)

Still, just wondering: how long does it take to hold a regular domestic daytime schedule? For example, daytime hub turns. No night flying and no crossing int'l time zones?

Thx,
73

I've been at FedEx for 25 years, I'll let you know. I don't have the seniority quite yet.

What seat?

I did after 2 months in 2002. I suspect it will take a little longer now.

But let me say that no where does being senior in your seat have as great an impact on your schedule than at FDX. If you choose to live in Mem that is particularly true.

Not exactly "domestic", but to give you an idea -- for the Europe (CGN) base, the 25-28 year captains and 7-9 year FO's regularly hold the few day-time flying lines on the 757. Good question for the other fleets in MEM though...

As LAG said, living in domicile has a huge impact on your QOL and schedule, as it does at most airlines...

Not trying to sound like a smart a$$, but avoiding the int'l time zone crossings is easy at FedEx. As long as you don't bid the MD11 or 777, or volunteer for HKG or CGN, you won't ever have to go to Asia or Europe. Now the daytime hub turns, that's another story. Just stay senior in your seat.

AA,
At purple, unfortunately, that is very much dependent on our hiring and retirements. Hiring is in a state of flux right now. It also depends on which airframe you are flying and where you choose to live. And of course the current what if with the postal contract. If you want to sit and stay senior in a seat, so you can hold out for your niche, you can do that. Each aircraft schedule is somewhat unique in it's own way and is pretty much like a different airline. the two aircraft that I think has the most daytime flying domestic is the airbus and the MD11. Both wide bodies so might take a while to get to them. Probably safe to say top 60% might get you a full day flying schedule, maybe at the higher percentages to EWRs and JFKs. I think it has taken maybe 7-8 yrs to get there in the past. If you are aggressive with trip trading, you can minimize it also, but, if you choose to live in domicile and do afternoon reserve, it will help it. I would say it is virtually impossible to not do a little night flying at some point considering we are a night freight company. I'm on the 11 and I will say that a friend of mine is flying capt for you co. and he flies more back side of the clock than I do. As a pilot, I have a lot of complaints but for me, I very much enjoy my schedule and an am departure to start a trip is nothing like night hub turning all week. Sorry it is so vague but YMMV.

Thanks for all the replies... I think that answers my questions. So it's possible but depends on the base and a/c. Wasn't sure whether you guys had a strictly "domestic only" aircraft, sounds like you don't.

And it's true that many folks here at AA fly more all nighters than their FDX/UPS counterparts! The reason being, INTL goes senior here and much of the INTL is night flying. The one exception is Caribbean flying, which is classified under INTL but is all daytime and goes relatively junior.

The FO bid at UPS closed today. A line very much like what you asked about was available to pretty junior right seaters on the 75 domestic. It was available because it worked every week of the 8 week bid period; i.e., it was a "weekends off" type thing.

Little/no night flying but they made the line suck enough to go super junior.

WW

Int'l is a much better gig. I have a 12 day trip (5 legs) with 44/31/72/41 hr layovers. ONT/HNL/SYD/SZX.

Takeoffs are (lcl) 1500/2100/0900/1800/1900. Things are also a lot easier flying a plane with bunks. YMMV

Actually, most of the FDX International is daytime flying. There is usually a couple of "backside" legs, either starting out at 3AM or doing the same heading out of Asia, but those are not that bad when you can get a couple hours (or more) nap during the flight. I usually arrive into Europe feeling pretty good, it's around 6-8PM local, time to go out for a few hours and then crash and get a nice sleep on local time.

That is not the whole story. Sure the flying may be all daytime, but lately many of the trips have a 24 hour layover. Tie that into the multiple timezones you just crossed, and you are really doing multiple day/night body clock swaps in a row. You are right though, it is daytime flying.

The biggest surprise to folks is usually the 24 hour layovers. Coming off domestic they look like no sweat. But look at some of those disputed pairings on the toolbox - we had one that went MEM - Osaka - Singapore - Osaka - MEM with nothing but 24 hour layovers. 40 hours of flying in less than five days, two 6-hour legs with no RFO, and every time you laid over you were going to work just about the time your body wanted to go to sleep. Trips like that take years off your life.....

Just had a MEM-ANC (29); ANC-HKG (26); HKG-CDG (18) then a hotel STBY in CDG. Horrible, horrible pairing. Layovers are shrinking and shrinking.

Yes, I agree.

Even with the rapid growth of years past it was a long time. Now....Who knows.

If you get hired over 40 I would say never.

Day turns
 

25th year Airbus captain and I cannot hold day flights consistently, but I bid for commutable lines and double deadheads. Three legs a night with a hub turn is life at 38% widebody captain. Once I accept that, the schedules are workable but not great. The Bus doesn't have the range to cross too many time zones so deadhead over to Europe to do our three legs a night with a hub turn through Charles DeGaulle.

Thx again guys.

Yeah, I'd be a complete basket case as a FDX/UPS pilot. Reason being, 1) I absolutely CANNOT sleep on a plane no matter how comfy the seat/bunk is, and b) I have many problems trying to sleep when not on my body clock.

The combination of those two factors have made my limited time flying Europe trips, ahem, interesting. I think my record for going with no sleep is around 58hrs. :eek:

Hence my current schedule of only MIA-Caibbean trips with 3 on, 3 off. Life is good. :cool:

Sorry, just woke up at 1pm somewhere, very confused, what is this thread about?:D

You're kidding right? At UPS I'd be worried about holding onto a seniority number and not getting furloughed.

I like the sound of that... hope you guys start hiring.

Already mentioned but deserves repeating. At FedEx it all depends on where you live.

There are Mempis bubbas who can count their night hub-turns on one hand. B reserve in the 57... are you kidding? If it aint a weekend you might get an airport stndby.

I've also seen the #1 seat holder bid a night hub-turn line to a crappy (imho) city probably because they live there.

One man's sushi is another man's stinking raw fish, or however that saying goes.

Does reserve go senior at FedEx on some equipment because of this?

B reserve on a Sunday can be the prelude to a week of hub turning. They can also move you to another period if required.

Guess what? Can't drop B reserve on a Sunday.

Day flyers might not like life at a night Freight company. Just sayin'.

yes, Reserve in ANC in the summer = fishing!

yes, Reserve in ANC in the winter= skiing, snow machining and hunting!
fbh

CGN flying - can someone expand on it? What are the usually destinations, layovers, etc? Is it still very jr? How many $ do you get per month for the assignment?

Many thanks!

For CGN base we fly to BCN AMS CDG MUC HEL OSL ARN CPH TLV BUD VIE MAN BHX and layover in most in most of those cities.

CGN still very junior, but from what I see, the next round of hiring will all be to MEM 757. CGN well staffed for now.

$10K to go, $3.5K/month for housing (if you have unused portion you get to keep the difference).

Good luck.

To add to cloud; most of the trips either Deadhead on Sun or Mon and back on Fri. You will do this twice in a 4 week month. If your line has a Mon DH you owe the company a punishment trip or 2 somewhere else in the month to get your line up to the 12-14 work day average. Of course there are some lines that don't follow this pattern.

This schedule is pretty close to the more senior domestic lines fdx flys.

Lag have you looked at those trips? I would not call them what someone senior in Memphis would fly. Most look like 3 legs each night with a hub turn, flying in lovely European weather. Not much day flying on the 57 in Europe.

No thank you.

Very true.

I also forgot to add BSL and ATH.

I didn't say the lines were I said the schedule was. I got the impression the guy wanted to know how often you are away from the frau. You are correct those lines suck, as do more and more of the domestic commuter lines.

So.... how 'bout this... instead of forcing those that take the housing money to live within 100 mi. of CGN, we let them live within 100 miles of a major hub in Europe.....

That's bound to save the company money. I can't imagine tickets out of CGN or DUS are a bargain.....

There are several already in CGN who would like to see this happen and live within 100nm of CDG, ARN, BCN, and BUD, as far as I know. Hopefully that will be an option in the next contract, in addition to the housing allowance being available to all pilots in the FDA's, regardless of wheteher the family relocates or not.