Posting 13-03 Practice bid - HKG
 

Can someone please explain to me how there are at least 20 people on the latest FEPP list senior to the last person on the practice award for HKG CA? :confused:

They probably bid something else on the practice bid.

It really is simple. The company will do whatever is in it's best interest. The MEC may or may not fight them on it. If they fight, worst case for the company, they will cut a deal that gets them what they want and only cost them half what they would have had to pay in the first place.

How would it be in their best interest to skip over pilots being paid passover?

There has never been a mistake on a practice bid, ever:rolleyes: My money is on computer error in the placement of that junior pilot on the HKG award.

By scaring another couple hundred from getting passover.

I guess my point is just because the current language says one thing and past practice supports that current language; don't be surprised if the company goes a different way and bets they will win the grievance or the settlement will give more of what they wanted in the 1st place. Which came 1st the HKG passover bids or the FEPP language?

sorry I guess i still do not follow your logic, I do agree there is a scare tactic program in progress. The 20 pilots referenced in the OP are all on passover, which is in some cases 60K a year so with massive repayment if they do not bid HKG. There is no way all of them failed to bid HKG on this bid, practice or not. The only answer is an error, stay tuned. There is no need for a future settlement, we have one on FDA passover, hence the scare tactic because the Company wants to limit exposure to the settlement in place.

The virtual training letter was created after 100's earned Passover. The company does what it wants and then we react. Why should this be a any different. Absent specific language, it is up to the company to decide which would be better, manning HKG with guys already receiving passover or sending new excess bidders first. I m betting they will do whatever scares the most people off the FEPP list.

I think we are saying the same thing here. but your last sentence is still a bit unclear. The Company has the latitude to award seats or not in the FDA on this excess as long as no one is bumped out of the FDA. They can not pick and choose who goes, with the small exception that if anyone is in a seat not declared in excess then they are unable to move on this bid. End of the day there will not be additional settlement or deal like you said may happen, when it comes to passover they want to minimize their exposure, period, but have to follow the deal in place for anyone denied the FDA.

Since the criteria on how many seats is left to the company they can wait till they find out who is going before they decide how many seats they want. If they scare enough guys from adding to the FEPP they may decide no new slots at HKG. If they generate a whole bunch of new passover slots they may add 30 seats and start calling bluffs.

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Well I had a long post to show where all the pilots on the FEPP list shook out on this first practice bid. Then I thought better of it.

I disagree that there is an error in the programming, I just think that of the 21 pilots on the FEPP list senior to the last pilot on the HKG CA practice award, 17 of them simply changed their standing bid for the practice bid. The 4 who didn't were awarded HGK CA and the 17 who did held either 75 CA in MEM or CGN or various wide body right seats. I don't think that is all that strange for a practice bid, and I will bet that many of them will change it back to HKG for the actual close of the bid.

I am just a very interested observer. ;)

FJ

Except that I know guys senior the the junior award and guys on the FEPP list that both bid it and weren't awarded it! That's why I asked the question in the first place. :confused:

One thing that may have happened is they were senior enough not to get pushed out of their seat, but too junior to bid to relieve excess in their seat.

That would not stop their FEPP as long as they continued to bid Capt HKG since they held it on a pervious posting.

The company can only fill secondaries on this bid for HKG since there are zero vacancies. Unless someone voluntarily bids out no one can get awarded in.

FEPP guys can do a lateral bid on this - say A300F to MD11F, stop future FEPP but keep all received with no repayment. Take the money and run. I think...

[QUOTE=Tuck;1395614]The company can only fill secondaries on this bid for HKG since there are zero vacancies. Unless someone voluntarily bids out no one can get awarded in.

If an FO is actually awarded a CGN or HKG secondary with no published vacancy (not an FEPP issue) does that mean the company has created space for them or is projecting a near-future need? Again there were 7 CGN FO awards but nobody has bid out of CGN...does this mean we are expanding or creating openings?

I think the company, particularly on excess, can award any crew position a crew member bids. They alone determine when an excess would be created in HKG or CGN.

How could that be though? Could the company on say the next bid say at the closing that they decided to change the vacancies to fill to 5 captains and 5 FOs and just increase the 57Fs to add 50 more? Where do they find relief in the CBA for changing the number of total spots on an excess bid??

Well that is not the question you asked. You asked why the 20 on the FEPP list senior to the bottom pilot awarded weren't on the practice and I gave you a possible answer.

If you know for a fact that somebody senior to the last guy on the practice award bid it and wasn't awarded it on the practice then I would say we have some problems with the bid. Were they eligible to participate in the excess in the first place?

FJ

I Talked to David T, contract enforcement on Friday and he said that there was a mistake on the first practice bid with the junior guy on the award was a mistake...

So if what you are saying is true, no one can be awarded 757 mem or CGN either, because there were no vacancies announced. So where are all of the 727 guys going to go with all of the other crew positions showing an excess?

Good point - disregard my earlier one. So I guess there's no way to know how many people they will allow into CGN and HKG until it closes - like the Company's FCIF said and TonyC has alluded to.??? But...you can always rescind the offer if you get stuck with it and don't want it.

Ok, now it makes sense...just not sure how that happens though!:eek:

There are no secondaries on an Excess Bid.

Nobody can voluntarily bid out of HKG on this excess bid. There is no Excess declared in those seats, so they are not eligible to bid.

However, that does not preclude The Company from awarding seats in HKG. It's entirely up to them to decide what constitutes an excess there, and they can award seats right up until that point. It's a great unknown that The Company in its new Just Culture mindset is exploiting in order to scare people away from bidding for FEPP.

They say, "Bid what you want to fly." That strategy has merit. I say, "Know your contractual rights." It might require a little more work, but it might also involve a little more reward.


The B-767 Vacancy Posting is a different story. If a HKG pilot receives a B-767 seat award, he creates a secondary vacancy, and The Company may choose to fill that secondary vacancy ... or not.




FEPP guys can not end FEPP eligibility by doing a lateral bid on this EXCESS posting. 2.f. of the Settlement Agreement applies to "non-excess, vacancy posting."

They can end FEPP on the subsequent B-767 posting. Be careful how you bid -- you may need to change your standing bid after the Excess Posting closes and before the Vacancy Posting closes.






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Good point Tony... Someone on the FEPP list can lateral bid on the Excess bid and continue with FEPP and not face repayment but for the Vacancy bid that is not the case.

I'm still not buying that the need for two separate vacancy and excess bids was merely a software issue.