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Old 04-28-2013, 01:37 PM   #11  
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Position: 767 FO
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Originally Posted by Nowake View Post
Thank you for that FMS info. It would almost have to be the same as the 757 if they were going to common type the two.

One more question, on this excess, going from a narrow body to a wide body, same seat, no seat freeze. BUT now before the 767 bid closes, suppose you are awarded a wide body FO seat on this excess bid and then bid the 767 wide body FO seat, would there be a seat freeze and how much?

thank you in advance
I am pretty sure in the scenario you describe there would be no freeze. I think you have to start training or collect passover to earn a freeze. But call CE and let us know what they say.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:46 PM   #12  
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I am pretty sure in the scenario you describe there would be no freeze. I think you have to start training or collect passover to earn a freeze. But call CE and let us know what they say.
Section 24 E 1 c
Down/Lateral Bid Freeze
A pilot who is activated in a crew status that requires ITU training
based on a down/lateral bid shall be frozen in that crew status
for 24 months, commencing on his actual activation date. A pilot
is not eligible for a permanent crew position award requiring
ITU training with a projected training date during that freeze
period except under the following conditions:

Ok so I am trying to figure this out. My first move-narrow body to wide body is due to an excess off the 727, so no freeze. Now I bid the 767 on May 6th and I am activated in it. I think I am now frozen in that seat cause it is a lateral move from a wide body FO seat (even though I never went to training) to a wide body FO seat and it was not due to an excess, it was just an ordinary vacancy bid. What do you think? Who is CE?
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:01 PM   #13  
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Originally Posted by Nowake View Post
Thank you for that FMS info. It would almost have to be the same as the 757 if they were going to common type the two.
e
757/767 is a common type rating. There is no further approval required.

As for how FDX decides to handle, that is up to them.

My guess for why they (Mgt) agreed to separate bid packs is there is No 767 sim yet, and everyone initially will go to Seattle to train and MGt didn't want to send 300 pilots offsite.

Just a guess
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:25 PM   #14  
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Originally Posted by Nowake View Post
Section 24 E 1 c
Down/Lateral Bid Freeze
A pilot who is activated in a crew status that requires ITU training
based on a down/lateral bid shall be frozen in that crew status
for 24 months, commencing on his actual activation date. A pilot
is not eligible for a permanent crew position award requiring
ITU training with a projected training date during that freeze
period except under the following conditions:

Ok so I am trying to figure this out. My first move-narrow body to wide body is due to an excess off the 727, so no freeze. Now I bid the 767 on May 6th and I am activated in it. I think I am now frozen in that seat cause it is a lateral move from a wide body FO seat (even though I never went to training) to a wide body FO seat and it was not due to an excess, it was just an ordinary vacancy bid. What do you think? Who is CE?
CE is contract enforcement.

As to your other question, in your example, you would not be moving laterally.. since your award on 13-04 would supplant your award on 13-03.. Thus you'd be moving from narrowbody FO to Wide Body FO..

But.. as earlier stated.. Call CE and let us know what they say on Monday.

Cheers!
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:29 PM   #15  
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Originally Posted by Nowake View Post
Section 24 E 1 c
Down/Lateral Bid Freeze
A pilot who is activated in a crew status that requires ITU training
based on a down/lateral bid shall be frozen in that crew status
for 24 months, commencing on his actual activation date. A pilot
is not eligible for a permanent crew position award requiring
ITU training with a projected training date during that freeze
period except under the following conditions:

Ok so I am trying to figure this out. My first move-narrow body to wide body is due to an excess off the 727, so no freeze. Now I bid the 767 on May 6th and I am activated in it. I think I am now frozen in that seat cause it is a lateral move from a wide body FO seat (even though I never went to training) to a wide body FO seat and it was not due to an excess, it was just an ordinary vacancy bid. What do you think? Who is CE?
Contract enforcement.

My guess is since you will never train on the excess you will not be frozen. Unless you are very senior and bid to relieve then you could have 2 training cycles. But in that case you would probablyget an early 76 class.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:13 PM   #16  
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Contract enforcement.

My guess is since you will never train on the excess you will not be frozen. Unless you are very senior and bid to relieve then you could have 2 training cycles. But in that case you would probablyget an early 76 class.
I am senior and planned on bidding wide body FO tomorrow by excess. (below current bid). I wish I could find the part in the contract where it says I won't be frozen on the 767 FO seat cause I never trained on tomorrow's bid award.

gotta go fly. If anybody can find it, let me know, I did a search for freeze and that part is not coming up. But I will call Monday to see what they say. tks
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:50 PM   #17  
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Nowake, so you are asking when you get excessed off the 727 FO to say Airbus FO on Monday, then on the 76 bid you get 767 FO, are you seat locked in the 767 FO position for two years because it was a lateral bid? As long as you don't go to training on the Airbus you won't be seat locked. Your reference above states that. When we had bids more often, people changed bids all the time before they went to training.

Sec. 24.A.
5. A pilot awarded or assigned a new crew position shall not relinquish his current crew position until he has been activated into his new crew position.

You are a 727 FO until you are activated into a new seat. You will be receiving NB FO pay until activated in something else.

Last edited by Overnitefr8; 04-28-2013 at 03:59 PM. Reason: added more info
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:18 PM   #18  
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Ok I thought the biding software uses your current bid award to run the bid. The trigger would be when u start training. Thanks. I do remember reading something about that.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:07 PM   #19  
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Ok I thought the biding software uses your current bid award to run the bid. The trigger would be when u start training. Thanks. I do remember reading something about that.
Yes, on the 76 bid it will say you are a WB FO of some type. But you're not activated in that seat yet.
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:54 PM   #20  
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OK I think I broke the code:
Section 24 E 1 a
E. Other Crew Position Award Procedures
1. Down/Lateral Bid Freezes and Restrictions
a. Down/Lateral Bid
A down/lateral bid is an award of a different crew status that is
compensated at an hourly rate less than or equal to the hourly
rate for the pilot’s current crew status.

Since my current pay status is narrow body, even after tomorrow, it is not a lateral bid.

AND

Section 24 E 22.
Bidding Restrictions on Subsequent Postings
During the time a pilot is in ITU training, he shall not be awarded a crew
status that he could have been awarded on the posting containing the
crew position for which he presently is in training, or on a subsequent
posting that closed prior to the start of his training.

Translation: During the time you are NOT in training, he CAN be awarded a crew position that he could have been awarded on a subsequent bid (B767) that closed before you went to training. Thanks everyone.
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