Worst Cargo Airlines to fly for (Pay,QOL,ETC)
05-15-2013, 07:50 PM
#123
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: On Food Stamps
Posts: 937
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Awesome advice. I'll repost here so everyone can see.
UPS Pilot, "If you don't work for UPS, you should quit."
UPS Pilot, "If you don't work for UPS, you should quit."
05-15-2013, 07:54 PM
#124
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,310
Originally Posted by Shaggy1970
Your words not mine but if it makes your night better... anyway I am done good luck.
05-15-2013, 08:53 PM
#126
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Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: MD-88
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by Lineslug
Lets just say we know we are the highest paid, thanks to a strong union, but we work for what might be the worst company with one of the most acrimonious employee relationships in the industry. And I've worked for some real scumbag outfits too.
05-15-2013, 08:54 PM
#127
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Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: MD-88
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Are you kidding me with this post?
Did I say I work at USA Jet? No, I did not. I can simply bring up the pay scale like I did for UPS. Not exactly difficult.
Where do you get off making ANY assumptions about me? I am asking, where? Please, where do you get that I have made no concerted effort to get ahead in this 121 world? I will answer none of your questions because I don't feel you deserve an answer.
"I am sorry you are at USAjet. Maybe you should network better and try harder."
Is this how you feel about all employees at USAJet? Seriously? You think every pilot who works there is there out of a slothful nature? They just didn't try hard enough? Have you seen the job market? Do you know what it is like to currently be furloughed and have children to provide for? Please, enlighten me. They would be at a much better operator if only they "tried harder"? Is that how it works in commercial aviation?
Further, how do any of your retorts prove anything regarding the status of UPS as the worst cargo airline? That's the POINT OF THIS THREAD. You are just singling someone out. Well done. I don't hate on UPS, I am jealous of people who work there for some reasons. Good for them! I
What a joke. I give up. If the people at UPS have to work with you, then yes, they have the worst QOL out of all of us.
Did I say I work at USA Jet? No, I did not. I can simply bring up the pay scale like I did for UPS. Not exactly difficult.
Where do you get off making ANY assumptions about me? I am asking, where? Please, where do you get that I have made no concerted effort to get ahead in this 121 world? I will answer none of your questions because I don't feel you deserve an answer.
"I am sorry you are at USAjet. Maybe you should network better and try harder."
Is this how you feel about all employees at USAJet? Seriously? You think every pilot who works there is there out of a slothful nature? They just didn't try hard enough? Have you seen the job market? Do you know what it is like to currently be furloughed and have children to provide for? Please, enlighten me. They would be at a much better operator if only they "tried harder"? Is that how it works in commercial aviation?
Further, how do any of your retorts prove anything regarding the status of UPS as the worst cargo airline? That's the POINT OF THIS THREAD. You are just singling someone out. Well done. I don't hate on UPS, I am jealous of people who work there for some reasons. Good for them! I
What a joke. I give up. If the people at UPS have to work with you, then yes, they have the worst QOL out of all of us.
05-15-2013, 09:51 PM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Brown
Posts: 1,126
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Gross.
Easily = not flying more than necessary.
Example. 5 year FO @ $155/hr x 81hr guarantee x 12 months = $150,660.
Pretty simple math. Are there even any IPA FOs with less than 5 years?
Sorry I had to take the time to make this point. Would like me to further prove it with the pay at USAJet?
Easily = not flying more than necessary.
Example. 5 year FO @ $155/hr x 81hr guarantee x 12 months = $150,660.
Pretty simple math. Are there even any IPA FOs with less than 5 years?
Sorry I had to take the time to make this point. Would like me to further prove it with the pay at USAJet?
At UPS a week is not 7 days and there are 13 months in a year. According to the union 75% of UPS FOs made over $200k.
05-16-2013, 12:43 AM
#130
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Standing in front of the tank with a shopping bag
Posts: 918
Congrats on winning the Pompous Post Game!!!!
Originally Posted by FrontSeat
You are the one who wrote "clearing." That is defined as after taxes and other deductions. I certainly do not clear 150k. After all the crap is taken out it is way under 150k and way under 100k for that matter.
I am sorry you are at USAjet. Maybe you should network better and try harder. They do not give these jobs away.
I do not have any ill feelings towards rich hedge fund managers. They work harder then me and were very hungry for their positions. I was free to go that route and I chose flying....
You were free to be extremely proactive to get a good 121 job. Did you spend hundreds of hours networking? Have you worked 3 flying jobs at the same time? Have you ever landed a 747 and a gulfstream and a lear in the same day....all being legal
Maybe you are not as hungry as you think you are...?
I am sorry you are at USAjet. Maybe you should network better and try harder. They do not give these jobs away.
I do not have any ill feelings towards rich hedge fund managers. They work harder then me and were very hungry for their positions. I was free to go that route and I chose flying....
You were free to be extremely proactive to get a good 121 job. Did you spend hundreds of hours networking? Have you worked 3 flying jobs at the same time? Have you ever landed a 747 and a gulfstream and a lear in the same day....all being legal
Maybe you are not as hungry as you think you are...?
Originally Posted by Shaggy1970
There are many that have it a lot worse than those here at UPS, that is true. One question for all of you that do have it worse, why do you do it or put up with it? The only thing that keeps me here is the pay nothing more. If the pay was not here neither would I, I would find something else to do with my life. This is no longer the profession it was many years ago when we as a collective made as much as a surgeon or lawyer, its now just a job. Isn't the problem with the industry that have people willing to work for pennies on the dollar and put up with what you guys put up with? I guess what I am trying to say is the very guys that most are you saying have no room to *****, moan and complain on this thread are the same guys trying to raise the bar while others are just lowering it. Please keep that in mind.
You won the Most Pompous Post on this forum today contest!!!! Congratulations!!!
Are you really that pompous to believe that tripe you are saying? I happen to know the former D.O. from USAJet: Colonel DC is a retired A10 Squadron Cdr., a decorated Gulf War Veteran, and an Air Force Academy Graduate, but is less of a man (or woman if you are) than you because he retired from the USAF when UPS wasn't hiring and was laid off from his previous D.O. job. Do you really believe that crazy shiznit you are saying?!?! Yeah, his connections through the Pentagon and Squadron pipeline were obviously inferior to yours. He got shot at during Desert Storm, but should quit aviation with which his ERAU Doctorate Degree is in and do a 9-5 job because he couldn't get hired by UPS. Riiight.....
Did you ever think for a minute that you were just lucky to get that call from UPS or are you really that good with shuttle landings, carrier traps, and confirmed kills? Dude, not to knock down your great accomplishments on getting hired at UPS, but seriously, were your efforts any better than any other UPS pilot hired? Was UPS your first choice or did you not get the call from AA, UAL, DAL, etc.? That's a valid question. What if you got furloughed from one of those carriers and didn't get hired by UPS? Where would you be working during that time to hold the bar high??
You should know by now that this career is a crap shoot and luck is what counts at the end. Just ask the inferior pilots from Pan Am, Eastern, TWA, etc. who all thought they had it made when they got hired. Astronauts, Thunderbirds, and Blue Angels have gotten furloughed from AA, Delta, etc... Did they not work as hard as you or not network enough to get on with UPS? Should they just get out of aviation since they can't get to pull the gear for you while wearing a brown uniform? At the end you say that they do not give these jobs away, but since it is such a crap job, why do you stay there when there are so many other cargo carriers with better pay, QOL, etc?
Your post reminds me of the SWA pilot who was trumpeting how superior he was to PICK SWA when he could have worked anywhere and that he wouldn't have worked for SWA back when it was a second tier airline
.... The truth is that when he got on with SWA, it wasn't the place to be and SWA didn't raise the bar for the rest of the industry, the rest of the industry descended below SWA.Here's a newsflash: When UPS airline started, it WASN'T the place to be either. My SDF crashpad roommates were all '88 hires who were furloughed from EAL, Braniff, etc. and tried to get on other places, but UPS called first. According to you, they were inferior and lowering the bar because they were flying jets for much less than "the Majors". Another example is Netjets, arguably one of the highest paying and QOL-per-time-off pilot jobs out there. Back in the early 2000's before their 2005 contract, Netjets was a crappy place to work by almost any standard. Now look at them (Yes, I know that they have 495 on furlough..). Are those pilots superior because they are at Netjets, or just lucky. My friends who fly there say the latter. Another example is AirTran.. Are those pilots superior to Frontier pilots just because they have an SWA seniority number or are they just lucky?
And Shaggy, with your reasoning your predecessors who fought to make UPS the great place it is now (by comparison of where it was in '88-'94) should have never worked there before it was a great place to work. They were "lowering the bar" by working there flying jets for less money than they made at EAL, Pan AM, etc. They should have quit aviation and done a 9 to 5 job rather than drag down pilot pay overall. Yeah, back then UPS was a reeeal sweat shop compared to now... Sure they had lavs in the airplanes, but the standard of living was crap compared to "real airlines". And let's not even talk about all the time wasted by Bob Miller who fought and received death threats when founding the IPA. He should haven't even bothered because UPS wasn't a first tier airline.... Have I been ironic enough yet? If the pilgrims, the Wright Brothers, and Bob Miller had followed your advise, would we be a Country, flying airplanes, or IPA having industry-standard contracts? Should we all just give up fighting for anything that looks Quixotic or do we keep fighting to improve our little corner of aviation. The latter is what I'm going to keep doing despite your sage advice.
I'll say it again.... This thread is about CARGO AIRLINES WITH THE WORST PAY, QOL, ETC., not Cargo Airlines with the Best Pay, A & B Fund, QOL, etc. but with the meanest Management and most abysmal Management-Employee relations. Why don't we start that thread?
Bottom Line: Timing is everything in this career and it is based on luck. No matter who you are in aviation, there is another pilot that is more qualified working someplace less pleasant than you. And it helps to remember that when you bemoan your lot in life. The former Blue Angels at UPS are as good as those at AA, UAL, FedEx, DAL, etc. and vice versa. In the end, we are all just a number to fill a required seat on the airplane. When you start deluding yourself that you are somehow better or worked harder to get your coveted flying job, well you forget that a Decorated Gulf War Veteran just got disrespected by a UPS pilot albeit unknowingly. Fight for more, but appreciate what you have. And respect others who are flying at an inferior company compared to yours... At one point, yours was inferior too.
P.S.- Hedge Fund managers don't necessarily work harder than you or were hungrier than you... I have flown many in my corporate days and most, but not, all of the ones that I flew got it through family connections. The 26-year-olds in the back of a multi-million dollar jet going into Aspen or Anguilla love to tell you how they did it all on their own.. And I ask, "so how did you do it and pay for college..? Paper Route? Working at Burger King in High School?" Answer.. "No, Mother and Father paid for college and I got a $500,000 start up loan from Grand Muh-maaa so I could do it on my own..."
Last edited by B727DRVR; 05-16-2013 at 01:27 AM.
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