Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld

Reasons for furlough at UPS.
1. Retirement of 3 man jets. 727s, 747 classics, and DC-8s were parked very quickly and replaced with 767s. Result was need for fewer pilots.
2. Age 60 change. Happened in the middle of reason number 1 above. Result was need for fewer pilots since there were very few mandatory retirements.
3. Over age 60 FEs bid back to the right seats. Result was need for fewer FOs.
4. Worst economic downturn since Great Depression. Result was drop in volume and need for fewer pilots.
5. WorldPort expansion was completed and flights were eliminated in CAE, DFW, PHL, RFD. Result was need for fewer pilots.
6. Scheduling optimization changed. For years UPS staffed the airlines with reserves who rarely flew. Many UPS pilots averaged less than 200 hours a year from 1988 through 2008. This model has changed. UPS will accept an occasional service failure due to lack of pilots since that is far cheaper than keeping excess reserves. Result was need for fewer pilots.
7. Retirement of DC-8 resulted in 150 former DC-8 pilots sitting at home for 18 months with captains making a quarter million and FOs making $150K. This infuriated the bean counters in Atlanta and led to reductions.
8. IPA members elected a president who literally told UPS executives to "f" off. He refused to play the game. The result was UPS being forced to play hardball.

Despite this tsunami of bad news with the worst possible timing, UPS only called for a furlough of 300 and floated the idea of up to 300-500 pilots. 300 pilots got furlough advisements and IPA enacted the open time ban, which increased the requirement for more pilots. UPS halted the furlough at 109 and all but 44 are back.

There is no conspiracy to screw over the pilots. Layoffs of management, hiring freezes, pension contribution freezes were enacted all over the company, and especially outside of the airline. I'm not defending UPS management, but furloughs were inevitable. I am mad about the vacation givebacks and sick leave givebacks along with the reduced guarantee lines nearly all of us did. I think it was 298/300 of the bottom guys took reduced pay. We never should have done that and it was a mistake for the IPA to advise participation. We have learned our lesson though.

I understand why furloughed guys are saying the company is awful. They are basing it on emotion though. UPS doesn't hate you. We are nothing but a number to them--as it should be for any publicaly owned company.

The current open time ban is working. It's obvious. Why we aren't continuing it is beyond me, but we are getting short staffed.

Originally Posted by bozobigtop

I received my first supervisor experience with Evergreen in freight operations in which Evergreen operated some of UPS own aircraft in the Western US. I believe it was Orion Air in which operated UPS own aircraft in the Eastern US. I will never understand why UPS decided to operate the equipment themselves because they have never been happy being the operator.

Originally Posted by lolwut

The worst cargo airlines to fly for are any ones that involve YIP.

Originally Posted by lolwut

The worst cargo airlines to fly for are any ones that involve YIP.

Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld

Reasons for furlough at UPS.
1. Retirement of 3 man jets. 727s, 747 classics, and DC-8s were parked very quickly and replaced with 767s. Result was need for fewer pilots.
2. Age 60 change. Happened in the middle of reason number 1 above. Result was need for fewer pilots since there were very few mandatory retirements.
3. Over age 60 FEs bid back to the right seats. Result was need for fewer FOs.
4. Worst economic downturn since Great Depression. Result was drop in volume and need for fewer pilots.
5. WorldPort expansion was completed and flights were eliminated in CAE, DFW, PHL, RFD. Result was need for fewer pilots.
6. Scheduling optimization changed. For years UPS staffed the airlines with reserves who rarely flew. Many UPS pilots averaged less than 200 hours a year from 1988 through 2008. This model has changed. UPS will accept an occasional service failure due to lack of pilots since that is far cheaper than keeping excess reserves. Result was need for fewer pilots.
7. Retirement of DC-8 resulted in 150 former DC-8 pilots sitting at home for 18 months with captains making a quarter million and FOs making $150K. This infuriated the bean counters in Atlanta and led to reductions.
8. IPA members elected a president who literally told UPS executives to "f" off. He refused to play the game. The result was UPS being forced to play hardball.

Despite this tsunami of bad news with the worst possible timing, UPS only called for a furlough of 300 and floated the idea of up to 300-500 pilots. 300 pilots got furlough advisements and IPA enacted the open time ban, which increased the requirement for more pilots. UPS halted the furlough at 109 and all but 44 are back.

There is no conspiracy to screw over the pilots. Layoffs of management, hiring freezes, pension contribution freezes were enacted all over the company, and especially outside of the airline. I'm not defending UPS management, but furloughs were inevitable. I am mad about the vacation givebacks and sick leave givebacks along with the reduced guarantee lines nearly all of us did. I think it was 298/300 of the bottom guys took reduced pay. We never should have done that and it was a mistake for the IPA to advise participation. We have learned our lesson though.

I understand why furloughed guys are saying the company is awful. They are basing it on emotion though. UPS doesn't hate you. We are nothing but a number to them--as it should be for any publicaly owned company.

The current open time ban is working. It's obvious. Why we aren't continuing it is beyond me, but we are getting short staffed.

Originally Posted by Twin Wasp

As I recall there was an FAA issue too in that UPS was in effect in "operational control" of their contractors and the Feds said if you want this level of controll you have to bring the operations in house.

Originally Posted by FrontSeat

He does fly for UPS. Just be glad he is not on the IPA negotiating committee.

Originally Posted by freightretriever

Wow, how many gallons of brown juice have you consumed?? I'm starting to think you don't really fly for us though. For the record 300 pilots did not receive furlough notices it was 179. You have your rosy view and I have mine. Of course some people would call what you have stockholm syndrome.

Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld

UPS is making money in the billions from the airline.

Originally Posted by lolwut

The worst cargo airlines to fly for are any ones that involve YIP.