My case is probably different than most. I don't want to be on my death bed saying, gee....I wish I had stayed in flying and enjoyed doing what I loved so much. The second this job becomes a burden on me I am out. I just happen to have a great job right now. When it comes to an end I will look back and smile.

Sorry captjns, no disparing here as I've had row 1A window seat for the past 12 years. :)
Hopefully, the drone generation is decades away.
And millennials, I'm a bit old for those kids.

I'm sure the same group from 5 years ago is lobbying hard. I'm fully anticipating a "get on board, train is leaving the station" message from ALPA. Which is quickly followed by congress saying, "well the Union is for it so it must be OK"

At the risk of stating the obvious, there are compelling reasons on both sides of this discussion. But, you cannot discount the few of us, such as brother Maxjet, who actually like our jobs and would like to keep the fun going as long as we can.
Some of us work our asses off to stay fit and able to fly. And, quite frankly, at 61 I will hold my cardio capacity and mental acuity against the 40 year old of your choice. I would be wholeheartedly in favor of a physical standard for a Class I that includes cognitive function testing. FYI, in the original drafts for extending 60 to 65, ALPA, IPA, APA and the IBT all came out against a "jump the bar" standard for the Class I, since the less fit of their brethren would not be able to keep up with us old bastards.
Being a career freight dog, I knew long ago that there would be no retirement provided for me. So, made my own. Could walk away anytime I want to. Just don't want to.
And, "management" has indicated that if I spend more than 14 days straight at home, I might just wake up with a cleaver in my forehead...

Heck there are a lot of 40 year olds that would love to stop doing this if they could afford to retire.;)

Nobody is suggesting to take away your CFI... give back to the younger generation. There are 135 companies that would value your experience if you need to stay in a turbine A/C. Why should I be forced to wait yet another 5 years to move to a major (not seeing my family growing up thanks to stagnation at the regionals) because you want to die going through the water cannons rather than spend time with your family?

I would never want to work for a 135 operator. I love THIS job. Why did I have to wait for 6+ years to get my upcoming Captain spot? Well, because that is how it is. This is the industry and those are the rules.

I know it sound selfish to you, but here it goes: I don't care about you and your career. I didn't expect anyone to care about mine. I never once felt sorry for myself when I went through 7 jobs in 5 years. Yes you read that right. In 17 years of aviation, God willing, this will be the first time in my life that I ever made over 100,000 in a year on a single job. I have always had multiple sources of income and could retire today at 62 without having to sell anything.

I stay in shape because I enjoy life so much and hopefully will not spend my last years with an illness I could have prevented. Why do this flying thing? It has been a fulfillment of my childhood dreams. I have paid my dues to get here and if given the opportunity, will more than likely stay until I don't love going to work anymore.

Those of you who have not applied to K4 because of what you "have heard", are missing out. K4 is the best kept secret in aviation.

Most of us who had to retire before we really wanted to made a surprising discovery: retirement is vastly better than we thought it would be. :)

Bingo. A lot of the pilots on this forum whine about everything. They don't like their jobs; they don't like management and all our problems are because of them; they don't like the flow; they don't like their line; they don't have a flow... And they whine about this too, and make posts that sound like they're trying to impart wisdom about what you should do because you are older, but they are just as selfish as they are accusing you of being.

Great post.

That is one of the great things about working for Kalitta. They pay me to fly to work and then buy the ticket, put me in hotels, all while keeping the points. I am off and free of junior assignments during my 14 or 15 days off in a row. When things are normal, (they are not right now due to a severe pilot shortage) you will fly about 6 or 7 days during your 16 day rotation. The rest of the time you stay in great cities and very nice hotels. So, it is a retirement gig. I do agree with your statement though. I have lots of friends in all different industries who have the same sentiment as you. Enjoy the retirement. I will be joining you in a few years when they kick me out of here.

No doubt you work hard to stay fit. Probably harder than most 40 yr olds. Of course you do cause you're 61. At 40 everything is easier than at 60. Dosent mean a 60 yr can't be better it just means on average that person isn't. You're an outlier. I commend you for it but for every one of you there are a 100 who aren't you.
I agree with your statement of having tests but that will never happen in our society. Everyone must be equal regardless of the truth.
It's sad really. We've created an industry where it doesn't matter if you are better than the other guy. You only have to be good enough 1 day a yr on your PC.
Earnest Gahnn daid "senority is the chains that bind us in mediocrity "

Words of wisdom here fellas.

Scoop

Could someone please explain to me how and why it is discriminatory to force a pilot to retire at age 60 but it is not discriminatory to force that same pilot to retire at age 65?

I find it perplexing that a group calling themselves Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination would support replacing one number with a different number.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but isn't this still age discrimination? Wouldn't retirement based on ones ability to pass a Class I physical be the only true non-discriminatory policy?

Tipsy[/QUOTE]



Of course its discriminatory. But it is legal discrimination. We are not unique in this situation. You have to be 21 to legally drink in the USA - legal discrimination. You often have to be 25 to rent a car in the USA - legal discrimination.

Almost all military members (probably a few Flag Officer exceptions) have to retire at 62.

Air traffic controllers have to mandatorily retire at what, about 36 years old or something like that? :)

And yes you have to retire at age 65 from part 121 Ops in the USA - legal discrimination.................................... .................................................. .................................................. ...........................................for now. :D

Scoop

^^^^^^^^^^ this

Why not 70?
If they develop meaningful tests that are realistic, they will have better criteria for mandatory retirement.
Right now, the number by itself makes zero sense...perhaps put in place by 75 or 80 year olds who are NOT flying.

Absurd justification
 

No one is crying (albeit yet) for a 70 year old US President to relinquish his unquestioned launch authority of our nation's vast nuclear arsenal....even after demonstrating some questionable sane behavior. Hardly anyone bats an eye.

So why are we really debating the mandatory retirement of airline Captains? If any person can continue to pass a comprehensive medical evaluation (think "military flight physical") then that person should be allowed to fly regardless of age.

Unquestionably the most idiotic statement I've read in a long time.

Also all Federal Law Enforcement Agents have a mandatory retirement age of 57 (extendable only in certain circumstances).

It amuses me that so many pilots think that ours is the only profession with a mandatory retirement age.

Trump's not the best example to use....

Clearly spoken by someone who had never had a really catastrophic career episode or a catastrophic illness or, god forbid, both. There are a million reasons that someone might want to continue fly.

Furthermore, there could always be those who's home life is fulfilled and who actually enjoys the job, the challenge, and the camaraderie. It's not everyone, but I have learned to only speak for myself rather than speculate about other's situations.

+1 Exactly!

++1

DC8 and I are but two out of hundreds of others, on multiple properties, caught up in the Great Freight Debacle of ‘09. You spend half your career working on a property only to find out one day the Power Brokers decide to quit, take their ball and go home. Unfortunately the swath of destroyed lives in their rear view mirror is of no concern to them.

But because of the nature of our industry, years worth of training and experience is not portable. One day, after say 14-16 years you wake up and find yourself in the position of having to start over somewhere else.

My personal situation, I was on track to retire at 62. That was my plan. That all changed in ‘09. Now the thought of upping the age to 67 (or more!) not only sounds appealing, but in some cases a necessity.

FAJ

Not true....
 

I too was caught up in the great downturn plus the 60 to 65 log jam. BUT... I can guarantee you that if you haven't made enough money by age 65, a couple of more years in not gonna make much of a difference. Take it to the bank. That part is gospel.

I disagree!
A couple of years will make a big difference for some folks. Not everybody is in the same boat, or came down the same river!

Bring on 67! Last year was the first year of a 18 year career that I made over 100K (101,000.00). This year I will make close to 200 and next year 250-300. Absolutely love the job and now, finally love the money. I am very healthy, why not stay 2 more years and pad the retirement account

So...with an 18 year career, you should be about 40. And making $2-300,000 per year. Yet you don’t think that you will have enough saved up by 65?
Maybe you should consider living within your means. I have a 30 year career. Plus I have started the career over 5 times. Add in a couple medical problems to help drain the bank accounts. I’m way behind on my retirement account. But I’m trying like crazy to get out at 60.
It’s a known fact that pilots who fly past 60 don’t have a long retirement

To each their own. You assume to know the poster’s age and where he is in his career, then lecture him on what may or may not be his spending habits?
I had careers spanning 40 years elsewhere. I’m new to 121, but so what, it is my new career? Oh, did I mention catastrophic injury in my thirties wiping out our savings and 5 years’ of my future earnings?
You may want to “get out at 60”, others may not. Still others, with a lifetime of physical fitness are young enough as a 70 yr old to do the job. Wait, that’s the minority, many don’t take care of their health and don’t have the ability. I prefer to be in the minority, thank you very much!
Gumby

Known fact? Please provide a study from a reputable source. I will have to read and possibly make another decision. BTW I am 62.5. I have started over 8 times. Hence never making any real money. Still, would not trade aviation for any other career. Work with great people, and see the world.

I just turned 73 and can pass a Class I physical, but I know that at my age I could not and would not fly big iron anymore. Oh yea my knowledge is there but the rest of me is not. Currently I fly a C-182 and although safe I also know "the old gray horse ain't what he used be". Stick with 65 and be done with it.

At top pay scale? Take a math class.:rolleyes:

Are the drunks posting again? Lets kill this thread again.

Dutch, it's not as idiotic as you might believe. I suggest you read the following and just chill...

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...ticle_left_1.1

Isn't it fair to say that most of the comments on this topic are far too emotional and not based on reason? There is probably sufficient empirical data now from sudden death, incapacitation or cognitive decline rates (since raising the mandatory retirement age to 65), to warrant another reexamination of the topic by ICAO given the pilot shortage in many parts of the world. Politics and emotion should not be a part of the discussion.

IMHO, if you can pass the medical and meet all the requirements/demands of the job, you should be allowed to do it as long as you like. Maybe medical standards would have to be more rigorous; that's the case in Australia where there is no mandatory retirement age.

Australian and Japanese medical standard will eliminate half the pilot population in this country so that's a no go. If I recall correctly 5 yrs ago FAA tried to mandate that all first officers carry 1st class medical and was resisted by big 5 and the unions and got squashed. So for now we maintain our drive through medical and brace for age 67;)

Actually, Senator Corker had hearings about that just today

Unless you wake up every morning to the sounds of "house management" honing that meat cleaver and mumbling about how "he/she is always around, underfoot, and getting in my way."

LOL
Ask a NJ fo how long upgrade is?

OMG!! Please GO Retire!!
 

Age 70 is Bull****! 65 is correct. (I won't bother with the science--check the facts yourself; as well as the ruling from the 5th (https://www.nbaa.org/admin/personnel...rimination.php)

Get the hell out the way. Let the younger men have a chance. I know you've got to pay for those 3+ wives, but ****, you should have had a better plan.

That's a FAA SCREENING exam. NOT a qualification for astronaut. I know 99% of your's only plan for retirement is to die in the seat. You know it. Quit hiding behind the AARP and any age-discrimination B.S.

Young guys are not going to spend $250K to become ATP certified to sit co-pilot to an old guy that doesn't have enough sense (left) or honesty in his diminished abilities to get out of the profession.

So quit the 50-shades of gray circle-jerk and go enjoy life!!

Wow! Are you bitter, or what? Some of the most amazing pilots I have flown with qualify for your old guy circle jerk society. Did somebody keep you from your dream job?


Or, are you just a bitter, ****ed off, juvenile who doesn't want to wait for your chance to fail as a captain...

The link does not work. I am hoping that maybe with you anger there might be a chance that the age will go up? Would love to work at a job I love until 67 when I can get max social security!!!!! Yea baby! Bring it on.