Southern Air Hiring Rumor
03-05-2014, 06:17 AM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Captain
Posts: 27
I noticed that the "WC" has changed to "XX" on Fearless's original post...so I logged in to find a private message from Fearless apologizing to me in private...
I'm disappointed that they didn't apologize in public after posting about me in public..... but at least I got one and I hope this thread is dead now....
I'm disappointed that they didn't apologize in public after posting about me in public..... but at least I got one and I hope this thread is dead now....
03-05-2014, 07:02 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 767 CA
Posts: 217
Bean, while there are a couple of points where I might not completely agree with all aspects of your post, it is refreshing to see there are still guys out there with a set of balls and can stick up for themselves in a day in age where everyone wants to hide behind a computer with a bs screen name and say $hit they would never say to anyone's face. Well done.
03-08-2014, 01:52 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 777, sofa
Posts: 1,183
Gringo,
I don't come up with anywhere near a $30k bump from widebody FO to guppy CA.
I figured on 5th year pay:
737 CA $120*61 = $7320 + per diem of 12hours*18days*$2/hour = $432 = gross $7752
vs
747 FO $79*70(trip rig, figure you're getting held out 20 days, on average) = $5530 + per diem 20*24*$2.5 = $1200 = gross $6730
That's about $12k a year more.
I know nothing about CVG and its neighborhoods, but a quick look at craigslist shows 1BR apts going for $600-$800 a month. Yeah you can get a roommate, but if you're going to sleep there 2/3rds of the time, well I certainly want my own bed and my own room.
I'm not 20 anymore.
And a 2BR looks like they are going for above $1000 a month, so half of that is half the $12000 more you're grossing. Plus utilities. And now you have to commute home, on your own time, and your own dime. Jumpseating is not easy or sure. And lost time can never be restored, so if you have a family you want to see, you have to pay for an airline ticket home, on occasion. So goodbye to a big chunk of the rest of your raise. And then there are taxes.
A wash financially. But with a lot more stress.
Ok, IF the guppy blocks more hours, and has outstation layovers, that CA gross will go up, and make a big difference. IF they reduce hours on the triple, or reduce days out on the whale, it will lower the FO gross, and make a big difference.
We shall find out pretty soon how things will shake out on the 737s.
I don't come up with anywhere near a $30k bump from widebody FO to guppy CA.
I figured on 5th year pay:
737 CA $120*61 = $7320 + per diem of 12hours*18days*$2/hour = $432 = gross $7752
vs
747 FO $79*70(trip rig, figure you're getting held out 20 days, on average) = $5530 + per diem 20*24*$2.5 = $1200 = gross $6730
That's about $12k a year more.
I know nothing about CVG and its neighborhoods, but a quick look at craigslist shows 1BR apts going for $600-$800 a month. Yeah you can get a roommate, but if you're going to sleep there 2/3rds of the time, well I certainly want my own bed and my own room.
I'm not 20 anymore.
And a 2BR looks like they are going for above $1000 a month, so half of that is half the $12000 more you're grossing. Plus utilities. And now you have to commute home, on your own time, and your own dime. Jumpseating is not easy or sure. And lost time can never be restored, so if you have a family you want to see, you have to pay for an airline ticket home, on occasion. So goodbye to a big chunk of the rest of your raise. And then there are taxes.
A wash financially. But with a lot more stress.
Ok, IF the guppy blocks more hours, and has outstation layovers, that CA gross will go up, and make a big difference. IF they reduce hours on the triple, or reduce days out on the whale, it will lower the FO gross, and make a big difference.
We shall find out pretty soon how things will shake out on the 737s.
03-08-2014, 03:45 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Under the Frog
Posts: 1,125
Rob,
If you're factoring trip rig, then yes, the numbers do go up on the 400 side. So I guess I can see your point of view.
Regardless, if you live in the CVG or LAX area (their second proposed Guppy base) then I still believe it's a good, if not outstanding, opportunity.
Granted, not what most of us signed up for, but the company is changing and so do we as a pilot group. Future new hires will likely be all from the domicile areas, and us legacy guys will either move on or adapt to the new normal.
But you certainly make some valid points.
If you're factoring trip rig, then yes, the numbers do go up on the 400 side. So I guess I can see your point of view.
Regardless, if you live in the CVG or LAX area (their second proposed Guppy base) then I still believe it's a good, if not outstanding, opportunity.
Granted, not what most of us signed up for, but the company is changing and so do we as a pilot group. Future new hires will likely be all from the domicile areas, and us legacy guys will either move on or adapt to the new normal.
But you certainly make some valid points.
03-08-2014, 05:24 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Under the Frog
Posts: 1,125
...However, I think that you're making some assumptions that will ultimately pan out to be incorrect, namely that the 737 crews will largely be comprised by out-of-state commuters, such as yourself, who feel the need to pay a lot of money for a crashpad.
While that's certainly the case right now, there's a reason why the initial cadre went as senior as it did (which let's face it, surprised everybody- the Guppy was largely expected to go very junior.) And that reason is likely due to the "free" 737 type rating, probably needed for say, oh, I don't know, maybe future employment with some other unnamed Guppy operator somewhere out there.
Just speculating here.
In the meanwhile, the company is quickly moving down the furlough list, and although I really don't know how many people are left still on the street, I did see some fairly junior guys both in the current 777 as well as 737 classes in Miami.
Which means that pretty soon the company will be forced to hire off the street, and the majority of those new hires will already be living in one of the proposed 737 domiciles, because lets face it, unless you have a bad mark on your record there's really no reason to take the job here and commute when you can likely just as easily get a job with one of the nationals or majors and commute.
So in fairly short order, I predict that the vast majority of the 737 crews will be off the street new-hires, who already own or rent in domicile (negating the need for a crashpad and extra car), as the majority of the furloughs will have been offered seats in either the 777 or 747, which is what they signed up for in the first place.
So short term, yeah, I can see where you think the 737 captain seat would be a wash, but long term? Or intermediate term? No, I disagree.
I agree completely with Wes; the 737 is a good opportunity. Maybe not for you, maybe not for a lot of the legacy "home-based" guys, but those guys should have every opportunity to stay on the wide body side of the house and not have to worry about giving up home-basing (which if it happens, and I don't think it will, killing home-basing would create mass exodus. The company is already critically understaffed, and this would terminally affect their ability to maintain our much vaunted 99.9999999% on-time reliability) ...but certainly for future new hires, who come onto the property knowing that they have to live in domicile, I think it'll still be a good opportunity.
Guppy Captain pay in northern Kentucky can go a long, long way.
While that's certainly the case right now, there's a reason why the initial cadre went as senior as it did (which let's face it, surprised everybody- the Guppy was largely expected to go very junior.) And that reason is likely due to the "free" 737 type rating, probably needed for say, oh, I don't know, maybe future employment with some other unnamed Guppy operator somewhere out there.
Just speculating here.
In the meanwhile, the company is quickly moving down the furlough list, and although I really don't know how many people are left still on the street, I did see some fairly junior guys both in the current 777 as well as 737 classes in Miami.
Which means that pretty soon the company will be forced to hire off the street, and the majority of those new hires will already be living in one of the proposed 737 domiciles, because lets face it, unless you have a bad mark on your record there's really no reason to take the job here and commute when you can likely just as easily get a job with one of the nationals or majors and commute.
So in fairly short order, I predict that the vast majority of the 737 crews will be off the street new-hires, who already own or rent in domicile (negating the need for a crashpad and extra car), as the majority of the furloughs will have been offered seats in either the 777 or 747, which is what they signed up for in the first place.
So short term, yeah, I can see where you think the 737 captain seat would be a wash, but long term? Or intermediate term? No, I disagree.
I agree completely with Wes; the 737 is a good opportunity. Maybe not for you, maybe not for a lot of the legacy "home-based" guys, but those guys should have every opportunity to stay on the wide body side of the house and not have to worry about giving up home-basing (which if it happens, and I don't think it will, killing home-basing would create mass exodus. The company is already critically understaffed, and this would terminally affect their ability to maintain our much vaunted 99.9999999% on-time reliability) ...but certainly for future new hires, who come onto the property knowing that they have to live in domicile, I think it'll still be a good opportunity.
Guppy Captain pay in northern Kentucky can go a long, long way.
03-10-2014, 07:46 PM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B767 Both Seats
Posts: 37
Who's flying the two airplanes out of Caracas? This article makes it sound like the DHL owned subsidiary in Venezuela is flying them. Is this correct?
US-based Southern Air will soon take redelivery of the first of five freighter-converted 737-400Fs which it will operate on a CMI basis for DHL Express. The passenger-to-freighter conversions will be done by Aeronautical Engineers Inc., and the first of the five 737-400Fs will enter service by the end of this month. DHL and Southern say they expect all five freighters will be operating by the beginning of August.
Three of the 737-400Fs will be based in the US at Cincinnati (CVG) where both DHL and Southern have their hubs. The other two will be based in Caracas, Venezuela (CCS), and operated for Southern by Venezuela-based carrier Vensecar (which has operated for DHL for many years).
Planned routes include flights from Caracas to Barbados (BGI) and Trinidad and Tobago (POS) in the Caribbean, as well as from Caracas to Bogota (BOG) and Panama City (PTY). In the US, the new aircraft will be used to add flights from the Cincinnati Hub to several cities in the Northeast and Midwest, including Philadelphia (PHL), Hartford (BDL) and St. Louis (STL).
Southern currently operates four 777Fs for DHL, also on a CMI basis.
US-based Southern Air will soon take redelivery of the first of five freighter-converted 737-400Fs which it will operate on a CMI basis for DHL Express. The passenger-to-freighter conversions will be done by Aeronautical Engineers Inc., and the first of the five 737-400Fs will enter service by the end of this month. DHL and Southern say they expect all five freighters will be operating by the beginning of August.
Three of the 737-400Fs will be based in the US at Cincinnati (CVG) where both DHL and Southern have their hubs. The other two will be based in Caracas, Venezuela (CCS), and operated for Southern by Venezuela-based carrier Vensecar (which has operated for DHL for many years).
Planned routes include flights from Caracas to Barbados (BGI) and Trinidad and Tobago (POS) in the Caribbean, as well as from Caracas to Bogota (BOG) and Panama City (PTY). In the US, the new aircraft will be used to add flights from the Cincinnati Hub to several cities in the Northeast and Midwest, including Philadelphia (PHL), Hartford (BDL) and St. Louis (STL).
Southern currently operates four 777Fs for DHL, also on a CMI basis.
03-10-2014, 07:50 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Under the Frog
Posts: 1,125
Venescar will ultimately operate them. Right now they're operating 727's; Southern will fly the 737 out of CCS until the Venescar crews finish 737 training, or until the first Southern crewmember gets kidnapped.
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