longest time wading in the pool
 

Hi,
Finally after several attempts to join APC, I have been granted a slot. So here it goes : I have been in the UPS pool for a freaking long a** time. I have had all sorts of intel about classes i.e. dates, equip, quals of new hires,bases, size of the pool (76) stc. What no one seems to figure out is how long was the longest someone swims for. I have tons of experience(presently flying Left seat 747 out of ANC), lor's and still I swim. So does anyone know the record for length before getting out? I interviewed 3/05 and received my letter 6/05. I know a guy that was put in the pool about the same time as me and he got a class 8/06. Any one else in the same set of circumstances?
Lastly, any advice for getting out?
Thanks for your input.

maybe they are waiting for the 1st new hire class with a 747 ANC slot

I've heard that rumor before. Some of the guys who were my FO's were hired for 757/767, so if they were looking for whale drivers then they already put them in classes.

:eek:

WOW, that is a long time ...

:mad:

:confused:


Almost sounds like something fell through the cracks ?

Contact HR?
 

When was the last time you directly contacted HR? The guys in the room had some questions about that. What did the company say last time you contacted them?

a2b,

Sorry to hear that you are still swimming. I think there are folks that interviewed before you that are still in the pool. I think that the whole setup stinks, but it is what it is. Keep the faith and the call will come!

1800 RVR

Interview Feb-02'
pool
Re-Interview Oct-04'
Class in Nov 04'

Not to sound sappy but its worth the wait.

I know of a guy who interviewed in Dec '04. Was flying a 75/76 international when he interview and sat in the pool for 1.5 years before he was called into class. Don't know why he did, he never asked. Just cglad he was in.

Just hang out and wait, and wait.......and wait.

That's an awfully long time.. I'd call HR and ask if they have your current contact information. Then mention that you are currently a 747 Captain out of ANC if they're looking for anyone to fly widebodies out of Alaska.

Know of two great people who have been swimming longer...
one interviewed in Mar. of 2005 and got the pool letter in Apr. of 2005.
The other interviewed in Feb of 2005 and has been swimming since Mar. of 2005. HR is aware of these two, as one has contacted them directly, and the other had his sponsor go check on his status. I believe there is someone on this board posting under the name Wigwags that has been swimming longer than these other two. Good luck KBB, MB, Wigwags, and the rest of those who have been swimming for what seems like forever. Hopefully 2007 will be the year for your phones to ring!
SW

I'd sure like to hear a reasonable explanation why they are hiring folks a month after applying without referrals when they have several people who have been sitting in a pool for 2 years or more.

Note that I said reasonable.

Anybody want to give that a shot?

I think that is deplorable.

FJ

Been swimming since 3/05
 

Hey all,
I've been swimming since 03/05. Called them about 3 months ago and was told my chances were good because of all the hiring going on. Lots of hiring took place but I never got the call. Last week I retook the FE written and sent an update letter in (My previous FE written was kept current by flying part 121). My sponsor has made a couple of inquires. I also know two other peeps on the flightinfo boards who have also been swimming a long time (03/05 and 04/05).
UPS is the number #1 place that I want to work. I can't wait to get the call and bust my butt! I'm just hoping with all the hiring that is going to happen soon that it will totally drain the pool so everyone gets flushed out.

I think I see a life preserver
 

Well I'm glad to have been able to post. at the very least I see there are others here in the same perplexing predicament. I have sent emails updating my quals and letting HR how interested I remain. I have met at the job fairs and spoken with Phil and Paige. I know how great a job UPS is , even though I am waiting patiently, it is nice to have all of you keeping me company. I still can't figure out the code but I know that a call will come. Thanks so much for the feed back. BTW the post of those who have been in the pool are you still flying heavy jets or other equip while you wait?

Those that checked for me and by my own checking the standard answer was it a competitve score that is issued and that if some one scores higher then they are offered a slot.

Can someone help me understand the pool. I thought once you were hired by an airline you went into their pool and waited for a class date. I thought the class dates came in order of hire so that basically no one hired behind me would actually start training before me (seniority amongst new hires). If that is correct then for you guys who have been in the pool for over a year is accurate to say that no one hired by your respective company in the last year has actually started training.

Am I missing something here? It seems odd (and a little inconsiderate) to have a guy sitting on ice for over a year and not be able to tell him/her when they are going start training. It doesnt seem impossible to me for airlines to be able to plan out a year or so and know how many pilots they put through a training program. I would think you be able to get a training date at the same time they tell you you've been hired...

Fact #1: UPS is not an airline - we are a trucking company with airplanes.

Thus, we don't follow the normal standard of airline hiring.

Our pool is a competitive pool - the better your overall score from the interview, the higher you sit in the pool and the quicker you get out. As new people interview, they are placed in the pool in the respective place of their score. So, a poolie can move up on the list or move down. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is what it is. These are their rules, and we must live with them. Hopefully, the pool will be emptied with all of the hiring going on, but no one can tell for sure. Those that get called right away for a class date after their interview are VERY lucky. Good luck to all of the poolies: I hope your 2007 will be a good one by receiving that phone call with an area code of 502! Hang in there, all! :D

I've heard that FedEx has had people in the pool for years sometimes. Actually what happened was they stopped hiring. When they started hiring several years later, everyone in the "old" pool was offered a job before they offered anyone else a position. I suspect many of them had found other employment in the mean time and were no longer interested but I still thought it was a classy gesture on FedEx's part.

Before 911 when Delta was hiring I am pretty sure that they had a "competitive" pool also. Talk about being in purgatory. Well, we kind of like you and we'd like to offer you a job, but we're going to go ahead and interview indefinitely until we are sure, and might bring those who we like better on in the meantime. Might not be such a bad thing in normal companies, but when your entire life revolves around your seniority it is a crime.

I think that is a poor way to treat potential employees, but hey I don't run the "airline".

Another reason why you are not "hired" until you are sitting in class with a seniority number and ID card. Until then you are just continuing in the process.

FJ

I think what you're missing is an accurate understanding of what it means to be in the pool (specifically as it applies to UPS). If you are in the pool, you are not "hired." To be in the pool simply means you have interviewed and have not been rejected. Nothing more, nothing less. You are not hired until you are given a class date and show up for that class.

If you have been in the pool for a year and someone else interviews today and goes to class tomorrow, you are not senior to him. You are nothing relative to him because he is hired and you are in the pool.

Hope this helps.

My stats:

Interviewed mid 2001. Placed in the pool in late summer 2001. Hiring stopped after 9-11. Hiring resumed in late 2004. Hired in late 2004.

EDPM

Or simply confusing a COMPETITIVE pool with a FiFo pool or First In First Out pool.

They function basically the same, but the rescue procedures are different.

Then there are places that don't even use a pool ... Some places tell you that you are hired and give you a tentative class date right at the end of the interview. Of course pending drug test and criminal background check. Some do it later with a letter or phone call.

Still others will start contacting employers as if they are going to hire you ... to the point the HR department is congratulating you on the job offer. Then 2 months later reject ... ???

I understand CASINOS better than I understand airline hiring practices ... and I don't gamble !!!

:D

hiring pool
 

Falconjet...

Do you have a dog in this fight? Every airline has their own way of selecting crewmembers; some are more straightforward than others. Seems to me you have a better chance at ups without one of your grip and grins than you would have at fedex without a sponsor. Care to comment on that?

BTW, what is that in your avatar? Is that something fedex will be flying?

Pilot7576

Pilot: No, I guess I don't have a dog in this hunt. This thread was about the UPS hiring process, not the FedEx hiring process. Last I checked, it was a free country and I was allowed to make a comment with my opinion on this website.

Are you defending the UPS policy of allowing a potential employee to languish in the pool indefinitely while others are interviewed and hired? If so great. In my opinion that sucks. That is all I am saying.

I do have issues with the FedEx hiring process and the meet and greet, which I consider to be a waste of the candidate's time and money. It is our system, however, and I work around it. As for the referrals, I have no problem with one, I think 3 is a bit excessive.

Also, I applaud UPS for interviewing folks without referrals, I think that is the only way to make sure you get to look at all the potential candidates out there, not just those with an insider. Each company is certainly entitled to develop their own policy, and I to my opinion of those policies.

I can separate my pride in my company from a blind defense of every last one of its policies.

The pic is the 777 in FedEx colors.

FJ

none of the three of us actually have a dog in this fight at all....we have jobs. Actually, there is no fight at all. It's the way that UPS and FDX chose to do things. I think that both methods suck, but I am sure each company feels that it gives them the best shot at getting the quality employee that they seek. If an applicant has a hard time with either process, they don't have to play the game.

hiring pool
 

Falconjet...

No, I was not defending our pool system; just pointing out that different companies have different ways of "winnowing" the applicants. If it was my company, the pool would be fifo; if you were good enough to be placed in the pool, you have already satisfied the hiring criteria. Unfortunately, they failed to make me king so ups still makes the rules and they decided on a competitive pool.

As 767 said, we are already there; we can't defend the hiring pool, only attempt to explain it to those who are or will be languishing in it. It sucks to wait and not hear anything; that is the worse part of it all. Here's hoping that EVERYONE makes it out in '07 and we can discuss all of ups and fedex stunted hiring practices over some cold ones on a layover.

JMO

Pilot7576

PS 777 is gonna be a nice ride...wish we were getting them too...

I think that we'll like what we get at least as much!

I just want to get THE CALL ... !!!

:D

You'll probably get them ... seems like UPS almost always orders the same plane FedEx does, just a few years later. I've heard FedEx guys referring to themselves as the UPS R&D department. :D

All,

thanks for the education...I had no idea the pool was competitive. Its seems most of you guys were from UPS. Can some of you FDX pilots comment on their pool process. Is it competitive, FIFO, or something else...thanks

there was no pool in 3/05
 

Hi,
Just to clarify a point about the pool.From what I have been told, when the hiring was restarted I understand that those that had been in the previous pool were reinterviewed if they met the new quailfication of 1000hr pic turbine instead of 500. When I interviewed 3/05 the pool was restarted shortly there after, timing is everything. I have a friend who interviewed 2 weeks before me in early march and was offered a class. Basically, after I interviewed the pool came back. So I really didn't know or think about what it meant to be in the pool. Maybe at the time if I knew about it I would have been more proactive in my interview and let it be known how making a mid stream change in companies would have been concerning if I knew how playing the wading game was to impact my future ie base,senority etc. I now know it is what it is. I also am sure that at the time of my interview I was concerned with answering HR questions of CRM type situations (instead of what my friend who interviewed 2 weeks before said was company profile type quest) and of course flying a fixed base sim were the paramount points. I didn't even think at that time that the process had changed. With all of the above said and done. I am still happy to wait it out since I have faith that the flightpath I am on will result in a smooth landing. A little bit of turbulence along the way is to be expected. It's just longer than I planned.
Thank you once again to all in letting me get a larger, clearer picture.
Until then its just,
a2b boxhaul.
Happy New year to all
See ya in ANC

Generally speaking it is a first in first out system. Pretty simple and straight forward. Its getting a chance to jump into the pool that is the hard part.

Being newly educated in the inner workings of the UPS "pool", I might be grossly mistaken in my understanding. So for clarification, an interviewee after finishing the interview process is given a "score" on his/her interview. Their score either grants them the right to wait for a potential hiring slot or they are denied employment. If they are given the "opportunity" to wait for a future potential hire are they given the opportunity to re-interview every six months? Is there any method for the possible hire to improve their score after the interview? For example, does more hours give them more points, or a LCA upgrade add points, or even a better quality suit? Or is their snapshot score on a sim and interview the score they are stuck with in the pool?

We have several potential UPS guys in the unit and a better understanding of the hiring system would be great.

I guess that's pretty accurate. I don't necessarily think your "score" in-and-of-itself is the determining factor in whether or not you're placed in the pool though. For example, you might have a high score based on your experience and sim performance, but your personality or attitude during the interview might be enough to generate a rejection. In other words, I don't think the process is purely quantitative.

Insofar as improving your score, I was always told to update my resumé while swimming at least quarterly for this very purpose. Apparently your score is fluid, meaning as you gain hours, type ratings, etc., you might improve your relative position in the pool.

With regard to being given the opportunity to reinterview, I think that's determined on an individual basis. Interviewing unsuccessfully doesn't guarantee you the opportunity to reinterview in the future.

EDPM

pool
 

kwri10s...

If you pass the interview, you are either offered a class date (stellar score) or are placed in the pool (time of notification varies). If you fail to pass the interview, a rejection letter is generated and sent (again, time varies). I have heard instances where another interview (and succesful hiring) is still possible after a first rejection. If you are rejected, you are not placed in any pool.

Depending on your "score" during the interview, ups will fill class dates as needed. If someone subsequent to you interviews and is scored higher, they will be placed in class ahead of you. The latest hiring seems to bias in favor of those with heavy time (esp md11) for future placement to anc domicile.

Hope this helps in your understanding of the ups pool system. Again, I wish it was a fifo pool but the golden rule applies here (ups has the gold and makes the rules).

Pilot7576

I have been in the UPS pool for a freaking long a** time.

A2B – first of all – sorry you’ve had to wait this long. HOWEVER, your post makes it sound as if you’re totally dumbfounded and very confused about why this is happening to you?

Well, I’m sure that part of your interview was to explain what you know about the company, and if so, surely you must have known about the competitive hiring pool? If you hadn’t heard about it prior to your interview then you must have missed some homework on UPS history (I’m not saying that you did though). It’s nothing new, whether you, or anyone else, like it or not – it’s their prerogative to choose the rules, and they did just that. Years ago may I add?

The very little I understand about the pool is that once you are “graded” there’s really no way to change your numbers even if you rack up another 100 hours a month as a captain on the whale. Your score is based on the HR portion, the sim portion, and anything else that might be on your record, failed check rides, numerous job changes (not furloughs), dealings with the FAA, heck I’m sure they even look into your driving record. Again, I don’t know this as a fact, that’s just what I heard. So somehow, your score got a little lower than you were hoping for and unfortunately you’ll probably never know why. No airline will ever volunteer that information to you, or even why they rejected an individual, for fear of lawsuits. Btw., a pool is still way better than a rejection letter. A friend of mine was trying to help out an MD11 driver from a small cargo outfit and was told by someone in the HR that they’ve only re-interviewed 4 pilots in the last 6 years or so, and those guys had some major connections. Remember, at least you’re in the pool but unfortunately you’re still waiting for the magic call. It’s ok though because eventually, hopefully sooner than later, you’ll get that call.

Lastly, any advice for getting out?

Well, I strongly recommend that you attend the Women-in-Aviation job fair in Orlando (February). Don’t panic, many guys go there (I did and it got me a job :)). It’s a great job fair and you’ll have lots of time to talk to the recruiters and re-introduce yourself to them. I heard Paige is moving up to a different department so I’m not sure if she’ll be there or not, but you’ll definitely see someone from the HR there. Bring your latest resume to show them you are flying heavies out of ANC and come with a GREAT ATTITUDE! I’m sure they do not want to hear: “my buddy interviewed after me but was called for a class before me, what’s up with that?” Trust me – the wait is worth it! Good luck to you! - I sincerely mean it!

Btw, there was a pilot in my class who was in the pool 26 months and 10 days (but he kept saying that he wasn’t counting?! ;)) Hope you and all other long-term poolies are next.

av80r,
Thanks for the insight. I looked for women in aviation and couldn't find their url. do you know it? I will happily continue to wait until the call comes . As always fly safe. See ya in ANC.

wai.org
SW

thanks skywaitress.

wia is a joke. A pure joke. It is as political an organization as any i've ever seen or even heard of. First of all, let me just say that I find this "organization" extremely patronizing. Yes, I am a woman, and NO I do not need any special benefits that the "other gender" doesn't get. Secondly, like any other organiztion, it favors a small few. I wouldn't waste my time on anything that has to do with wia.

Getting a job, is a job. If it would help to go to WIA, I would just suck it up and go. You can poke fun of them later if you'd like (we call them the CIA around our place). If the UPS recruiters like to see male applicants with so in touch with their femine side that they would show up at the WIA convention, then so be it, he should go.

I agree.

CIA? Nice.

Anyways, I know at least 3 guys and a gal that went to WIA and got on with UPS shortly thereafter. Another buddy of mine went and got an interview with Airtran, Continental and Alaska right after the conference. He's at Alaska now. Basically, I always looked at it as another job fair, like AirInc. They have other things going on, but I always went to talk to the airlines and meet us with some friends once a year. It gets you face to face with the people that decide who to interview. You also get more time with the people because there just aren't as many people in line there as there are at AirInc.