Pilot7576

+1 on that great post!

e6bpilot

"a company does not exist for a pilots benefit"

Amen. The sooner people understand this and pattern their behavior after it, the better.

UNK7

Excellent post. Thanks for taking the time to share. A million years ago, I worked in the load at Chantilly, and I still remember the weekly "stopwatch inspection" to check we were meeting our stacking goals. Hardest job I ever had, but a great place to work. App process was pleasantly simple. Hoping for a call.

Swedish Blender

The hardest part about your post relates to making money and being junior. With all the retirements at the legacies, your QOL will increase meteorically compared to UPS. While UPS pilots do make more today and have retirement plans, the passenger airlines are catching up on pay (under the 2006 UPS contract, who knows after the new one.)

It boils down to trading QOL for money. A 2006-07 hire at UPS is projected to take 18-19 years to captain. That's the bottom spot in ANC with 300-400 current FOs bypassing. The UPS FO will make more money than legacy FOs (and some captain) during that time, but if the legacy pay continues to increase and the time to WB captain drops, you'll probably make more at the legacy (excluding benefits).

If given a choice, the will be many things to weigh in making a decision. If not, the choice is easy.

Albief15

At the same time, a corporation cannot do a THING without people. Its not a lifeless borg, but rather an organism where you are one of the organism's cells. As a pilot, like the muscles in your heart, or the eyes in your head, you do add quite a bit value to the whole of the organism. If you fail to understand the value people do bring to an organization, you will have a hard team ever leading within that group. You will also be likely under compensated for the majority of your career.

e6bpilot

On this point we cannot agree more. People make the machine run. Investing a little capital in the "people bank" pays dividends when the chips are down and you have to make a withdrawl. I have found that to be very true in my military career as well as my limited exposure to civvy street.
I was speaking mainly about managing one's expectations in this industry. It seems that those who have the most trouble during turbulent periods fail to understand that in some companies their services are viewed as nothing but expensive labor. If/when their utility is no longer needed, they are left to flap in the breeze or cut loose because the bottom line is the primary driver in keeping investors happy. I would hope that a good company/management group would see the value in their people and do the right thing. More often than not, however, that doesn't happen. If/when the next downturn or other unforseen event happens and my services aren't needed, I have little doubt that I will be put on the street and thanked for my time if my seniority puts me in that position.

champ42272

Great insight into UPS, but I'd rather fly for FedEx.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

FIT59

However in 10 years from now the retirements at UPS are so huge that one barely holding captain n 2024 will be senior in the left seat less than 5 years after upgrade. If you are 40 or younger hired in this next wave you should be able to spend more time in the left seat than the right, and your seniority will advance significantly faster than the previous generations. *insert standard doomsday caveats*

The rise in seniority will be faster than what an 07 hire experienced, as we are now entering a time with a decent amount of retirements. New hires will have 1000 pilots behind them in 10 years, where 2007 hires have had 200 to 0 behind them in over 7 years!

BYOB

Great post!

When I was younger I worked as a seasonal driver for UPS in Glenwood, my daily route was delivering to Snowmass Village/Aspen. I was fortunate enough to see how the trucking side of UPS worked. The union did a great job (at least as far as I could tell as a early 20's schlep) of fighting for the drivers and the early morning sorters.

In spite of all of the negatives of working for UPS I still have a strong desire to work there. The camaraderie of the grunts in the trenches, combined with the paycheck and retirement benefits make this a no-brainier for me. I flew night freight for 4.5 years (call sign Starcheck). The nights can be rough, but I'm a night owl by nature, so I enjoyed it, but the cohesive nature and hardwork, stick-together mentality of my fellow pilots made it the most fun flying job I've ever had. I have seen and felt that same emotion while seasonally driving for UPS, as well as when I ride the UPS jumpseat. 10+ years at the regional level and I'm ready for a change. I honestly don't think it can be any worse at UPS compared to the regionals since the FAR 117 rules have gone into effect.

CloudSailor

Great post flyphisher,

By much of what you describe, I arrived at my own list of top 3 choices: FedEx, UPS, and Cathay Pacific. I consider myself very fortunate to have landed my top choice after many years of hard work (like the vast majority of us). However, I would have felt just as fortunate to have been hired on with UPS or Cathay.