Pakagecheck

From your list above please point out which ones perform without a degree. We have many flying the line that don't. It doesn't make them any worse of a pilot. It isn't about our backgrounds but about our duties. We have lawyers, pharmacists, phd'd individuals flying at FedEx. Our backgrounds are among some of the finest. But our profession doesn't require an aviation degree. Just because you or I may have commanded a group or a wing or ran an entire manufacturing plant doesn't change the present. The fact of the matter is, you get paid to move a big heavy piece of equipment from one place to another. I know, sometimes simplicity hurts. Yes, there is specialized training, and yes we have lots of experience, but we are still paid labor.

A friend of the family was a Doctor of psychology for our local school district. When there were cutbacks and his position was eliminated, he went to work at a manufacturing plant as a cnc machinist(he had learned the trade to pay his way through college). His background was impressive but still just a blue collar worker. He actually made more being a machinist.

The fact is to our fault. We perceive ourselves as management and at times lean way to far forward to assist. Make no mistake about it, they are with you win or draw. So both you and PPP may be highly educated or lead many and made huge decisions, but you still move equipment at an hourly rate and only tech school was required.

Pakage

Patches

I'm a white collar dude - stuck in a blue collar job.

appDude

I am a red collar.

PicklePausePull

Yep, we are. So how about you give me a break! We are not blue collar workers. Just ask the ramp agents, maintenance techs, cleaners, etc. if they see us a "blue collar" workers. Compare the average Captains' second home here with the average box throwers first home.

We are a professional association, not a blue collar labor union!!!!! We do collectively bargain. So do many other professionals: Boeing Engineers, Doctors in many hospitals, etc.

We should know who we are before we ask for appropriate compensation. Maybe this is part of our difficulties in our current negotiations? Asking for white collar compensation while representing ourselves, as Tony C says, as nothing but skilled janitors.

TonyC

When ramp agents, maintenance techs, cleaners, etc., start determining my work rules and compensation, I'll care how they view us.

You're obviously confusing the amount of money you get with the manner in which you receive it. You could pay that janitor you mentioned a million dollars a year, but that wouldn't make his job anything other than blue collar.






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YYESIAV8

I own a couple of lower end rental houses, guess that makes me a slum lord. I've got a plumber I use exclusively on all my properties. He didn't finish high school, has one assistant and the wife keeps his books. Just found out recently he earns more than me in an average year.

Interesting conversation we had. He's under no illusions about what he does, but he sure knows what's he's worth.

iarapilot

It seems that they have the same misperception that you do. And, seeing is different than being.

FDXLAG

It has been about a generation since successful and (blue collar) labor unions have been in the same sentence. Today's successful labor union are all public sector and negotiate with a management does not have to make a profit. Not to worry our PAC helps them out all they can.

Blue collar white collar, who cares. I go with a little of both. If you think a doctor has the same career right now that he thought he would have had 40 years ago you are nuts (has a lot to do with those public sector unions winning). Same with us.

moondoggie11

+1

Although I appreciate the self-deprecating attitude of Tony C and many others of the Blue Collar persuasion, the fact is that airline pilots do not fit neatly into either the blue or white category. What's interesting and ironic is how adamantly predominantly white males want to argue until they're blue in the face about which category is "correct." The perception among ourselves is illuminating and reflects the conflicted behavior we've demonstrated toward going beyond BLG throughout negotiations.

Perception is important on the line but it's critical in negotiation...both how each side perceives themselves and perceives those on the other side of the table. The real question is what category does our Union leadership and, more importantly, our Negotiating Committee perceive themselves to fall under? Based on the lack of progress thus far and demonstrated naivete, I'd have to conclude that they erroneously see themselves as WC equals. Personally, I believe a BC mindset, both on the line and within the Union and NC, would have gotten us an acceptable TA by now. It's not the category that matters...it's the mindset.

Unknown Rider

Blue Collar/White Collar doesn't matter. I'm a professional.