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FedEx- deviation first class
I'm working at a hub turn where I fly about five hours of block. That is followed by a deadhead. I plan on going to the hotel for a few hours sleep and then deviating home. The commercial flight is about four hours. If I'm reading the contract correctly, I can get a first class ticket based on total block hours in the duty period since I'm not taking a full rest. When I tried to book it with corporate travel, the lady kept telling me that I was not able to book 1st class. Can someone clarify this for me? Thanks.
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You should get it for DUTY time, not block time. Hub turn followed by a less than 8 hour rest quals for FC every time regardless of block time
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Relevant section is 8.A.4.b.ii a deadhead is included in a single duty period exceeding 11:30 (lead in verbiage is A class of service higher than coach shall be authorized if: )
While it may be possible, I can't think of a single occasion where a hub turn followed by a few hours of sleep at the hotel followed by a DH home didn't exceed 11:30. And there's very few occasions where a FC ticket wouldn't have been authorized on a single departure back end DH for me either. |
Just book it on reservation system on PFC.
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[QUOTE=kronan;1795217]Relevant section is 8.A.4.b.ii a deadhead is included in a single duty period exceeding 11:30 (lead in verbiage is A class of service higher than coach shall be authorized if: )
The contract section is the only thing that matters here. If you are entitled to FC per the contract then you are allowed to book it. I have used this particular provision on back-end DH's more times than I can count. While the people in Global travel are nice and certainly work hard for the crew force they do not have supervisory authority over a pilot, in that they cannot tell me what I can and cannot book. I would politely tell them to book the ticket and if there are any issues I would be happy to entertain a call from my fleet manager. |
Does your pairing have you dhing at the end of the duty period, or laying over prior to the dh?
The reason that I ask is that the 11:30 duty applies only to a scheduled dh at the end of the duty period, not deviating same duty period on your own. 4.Class of Service for Commercial Deadhead Travel Requirements regarding class of service shall apply when the deadhead is scheduled. The Company shall not be in violation of this Section due to operational changes or conditions imposed by passenger carriers after the deadhead is scheduled (e.g., increased or reduced block time). Regardless of whether such changes occur, a pilot’s deviation allowance is based on the class of service authorized in the original schedule. a.Deadhead travel shall be booked in coach class unless a higher class of service is authorized. b.A class of service higher than coach shall be authorized if: i. a deadhead exceeds 5 scheduled block hours; or ii. a deadhead is included in a single duty period exceeding 11:30; |
Originally Posted by The Walrus
(Post 1795271)
Does your pairing have you dhing at the end of the duty period, or laying over prior to the dh?
The reason that I ask is that the 11:30 duty applies only to a scheduled dh at the end of the duty period, not deviating same duty period on your own. 4.Class of Service for Commercial Deadhead Travel Requirements regarding class of service shall apply when the deadhead is scheduled. The Company shall not be in violation of this Section due to operational changes or conditions imposed by passenger carriers after the deadhead is scheduled (e.g., increased or reduced block time). Regardless of whether such changes occur, a pilot’s deviation allowance is based on the class of service authorized in the original schedule. a.Deadhead travel shall be booked in coach class unless a higher class of service is authorized. b.A class of service higher than coach shall be authorized if: i. a deadhead exceeds 5 scheduled block hours; or ii. a deadhead is included in a single duty period exceeding 11:30; |
You are right. My bad.
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1st overnite, I think you are right, but corporate travel is really confused about this and I've heard of other cases where they refuse to book it.
However, if your entire duty day, from scheduled show, until the time your deviation deadhead schedules you to land at home (plus 30 min), is over 11+30 (without a full 8 hour rest period), you are entitled to book first class for duty day. If you tell them, "First class for duty day," they will book it and not give you a hard time. |
A related question. I'm doing a front end deviation, and using the FEDEX online system to select a flight. I specify Coach (Y) Class in my search. All airlines return Coach Class fares except United. That airline returns First Class fares for some reason. Also, those United First Class fares are as cheap, if not cheaper, than the other airlines Coach Class fares. Any idea why the system does this? I seem to remember something about United offering us free upgrades to First Class. Don't want to book a deviation ticket that will come back and bite me at expense report time.
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If you select cheapest option, and UA returns FC, while all the rest is Y, you can book and be reimbursed with no worries. I've done it many times. United sometimes has FC fares that are cheaper than their coach fares on the same flights.
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Originally Posted by av8vito
(Post 1795398)
A related question. I'm doing a front end deviation, and using the FEDEX online system to select a flight. I specify Coach (Y) Class in my search. All airlines return Coach Class fares except United. That airline returns First Class fares for some reason. Also, those United First Class fares are as cheap, if not cheaper, than the other airlines Coach Class fares. Any idea why the system does this? I seem to remember something about United offering us free upgrades to First Class. Don't want to book a deviation ticket that will come back and bite me at expense report time.
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The contract United signed with FedEx is for FC seats on all bookings. Anything booked United should be FC, I have deviated several times this year all FC on United. I think the Corporate contract with united runs out in the spring.
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Thanks for the gouge guys. I'll press with my FC deviation.
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Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately, first class is now sold out. I should have gone with what I thought was right. But I was half-asleep and the global travel lady was insistent I couldn't get the first class ticket, so I didn't. I'll know better for next time.
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New guy question. If deviating on the back end of a trip (coach service is authorized), can I book a FC ticket using any surplus money I have in my deviation bank to pay the difference or is this considered an unauthorized expense? Thanks
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Originally Posted by memhubturn
(Post 1797108)
New guy question. If deviating on the back end of a trip (coach service is authorized), can I book a FC ticket using any surplus money I have in my deviation bank to pay the difference or is this considered an unauthorized expense? Thanks
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Originally Posted by memhubturn
(Post 1797108)
New guy question. If deviating on the back end of a trip (coach service is authorized), can I book a FC ticket using any surplus money I have in my deviation bank to pay the difference or is this considered an unauthorized expense? Thanks
Originally Posted by CargoCan
(Post 1797113)
That would be nice but unfortunately its unauthorized.
If your deviation flt is: Over 5:00, block to block, or If you are deviating in the same duty period as your last operating flt and your duty period, including the deviation flight, is over 11:30, or Your operating block hours plus your deviation flt hours, together, are over 8 block hrs...You are authorized to book 1st class. Your bank will remain the same, regardless of what your deviation flights authorize you to do. CBA 8.A.4.b. |
Originally Posted by av8vito
(Post 1795398)
A related question. I'm doing a front end deviation, and using the FEDEX online system to select a flight. I specify Coach (Y) Class in my search. All airlines return Coach Class fares except United. That airline returns First Class fares for some reason. Also, those United First Class fares are as cheap, if not cheaper, than the other airlines Coach Class fares. Any idea why the system does this? I seem to remember something about United offering us free upgrades to First Class. Don't want to book a deviation ticket that will come back and bite me at expense report time.
I've had this happen to me a couple of times recently and I've selected the UA first class ticket and have not had any issues. I had the bank money and my expense report was processed without any hassle. I just figured if the FOX deviation system populated the option then it was approved :) FWIW, just one pilots experience, book at your own risk tho. |
Originally Posted by Busboy
(Post 1797180)
Actually, it may be authorized. If your deviation flt block hrs or duty time authorizes a 1st class ticket, then you can do it. It doesn't matter what class the scheduled flt was authorized for.
If your deviation flt is: Over 5:00, block to block, or If you are deviating in the same duty period as your last operating flt and your duty period, including the deviation flight, is over 11:30, or Your operating block hours plus your deviation flt hours, together, are over 8 block hrs...You are authorized to book 1st class. Your bank will remain the same, regardless of what your deviation flights authorize you to do. CBA 8.A.4.b. Memhubturn - I thought you were asking if you can simply apply leftover bank money to cover "unauthorized" first class expenses. The answer is to that question is still no. |
Originally Posted by CargoCan
(Post 1797967)
The operative word being, "authorized"
Memhubturn - I thought you were asking if you can simply apply leftover bank money to cover "unauthorized" first class expenses. The answer is to that question is still no. Case in point: had a trip with a back end 2 leg DH where the plane was full and I was sandwiched in a middle seat on both legs. Looked on the deviation website and found a FC ticket that was less than $10 more...still 2 legs but both FC and got back to MEM earlier. Be nice if you could use bank money for something like that...good for me and the company still comes out ahead because of a positive bank balance. Oh well, those are the rules and I appreciate the help. |
"Case in point: had a trip with a back end 2 leg DH where the plane was full and I was sandwiched in a middle seat on both legs. Looked on the deviation website and found a FC ticket that was less than $10 more...still 2 legs but both FC and got back to MEM earlier. Be nice if you could use bank money for something like that...good for me and the company still comes out ahead because of a positive bank balance. Oh well, those are the rules and I appreciate the help."
Unfortunately the system is to just look at one little piece of the puzzle, not the entire picture. You can save them $3K one month, but they'll still charge you the $5 you went over your parking bank. Ridiculous. However, if first class is cheaper than coach, they will book it for you and not charge you extra. But it has to be cheaper than coach on that flight, specifically. |
Originally Posted by memhubturn
(Post 1798125)
Case in point: had a trip with a back end 2 leg DH where the plane was full and I was sandwiched in a middle seat on both legs. Looked on the deviation website and found a FC ticket that was less than $10 more...still 2 legs but both FC and got back to MEM earlier. Be nice if you could use bank money for something like that...good for me and the company still comes out ahead because of a positive bank balance. Oh well, those are the rules and I appreciate the help. However for this above situation you are not completely out of luck if it ever arises again. You can always us the "Crew Travel Upgrade Form". Located in the Forms section of PFC. It allows you to book first class when it otherwise wouldn't be authorized, but you bear the difference between the coach and first class fares. In the above situation 10 bucks is worth it in my book! Just fill out the form before you call global travel. Specify how much more you are willing to pay, in this case no more than $10, and submit. Global travel gets a email and will book the new class of service when you call. $10 will come out of your check, but the cost of the coach ticket get billed to your bank. |
Originally Posted by purple1day
(Post 1798360)
You are correct in saying that it would be nice if we could use bank money for this situation, however, like you said those are the rules.
However for this above situation you are not completely out of luck if it ever arises again. You can always us the "Crew Travel Upgrade Form". Located in the Forms section of PFC. It allows you to book first class when it otherwise wouldn't be authorized, but you bear the difference between the coach and first class fares. In the above situation 10 bucks is worth it in my book! Just fill out the form before you call global travel. Specify how much more you are willing to pay, in this case no more than $10, and submit. Global travel gets a email and will book the new class of service when you call. $10 will come out of your check, but the cost of the coach ticket get billed to your bank. |
FDXLAG is correct, however, you will never pay more than the maximum you set in the form when filled out.
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Do you guys have to buy your own tickets? What is deviation? Curiosity
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Originally Posted by say again
(Post 1798421)
Do you guys have to buy your own tickets? What is deviation? Curiosity
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Originally Posted by FDXLAG
(Post 1798397)
Careful you will pay the difference between coach and first on the same flight. The $10 difference in his example is likely between different flights.
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Originally Posted by memhubturn
(Post 1805185)
It was between different flights. However, the Travel Upgrade Form allows you to select the type of ticket...Scheduled or Deviation. So, if I select "Deviation" as the ticket type, am I good to go as long as the total fare for my first class deviation ticket is within the max amount I selected?
Cheers, fbh |
Originally Posted by memhubturn
(Post 1805185)
It was between different flights. However, the Travel Upgrade Form allows you to select the type of ticket...Scheduled or Deviation. So, if I select "Deviation" as the ticket type, am I good to go as long as the total fare for my first class deviation ticket is within the max amount I selected?
Let's say you have a back end DH for $400 from a trip that ends in EWR. This notional $400 DH bank is for a scheduled Y fare from EWR to MEM after an overnight in EWR. Now let's say you live in PIT. Different examples, with you living in PIT: 1) you legal rest in EWR and take a nonstop on UA express CRJ200 that takes 1 hour. Your deviation qualifies for Y fare. This Y fare costs $500. You can take it as a deviation and you owe the company $100 unless you have other bank that month to cover the excess you spent. 2) you legal rest in EWR and take a DL mainline flight that connects thru ATL and the block time is 2.5 hours total, and your day is 5 hours duty for your deviation to PIT. Your deviation qualifies for Y. If Delta's Y fare is $300 and their F fare is $350, doesn't matter that they are under your bank. You may take the Y deviation and have it fully reimbursed at $300. If you want to fly F on a deviation that as booked only qualifies for Y, that's when you fill out the travel upgrade form and you'll be debited the $50 from your pay. 3) you legal rest in EWR and you take a DL flight connecting through SLC! Your total deviation block is 5 hours and your day is 7 hours. Your deviation qualifies for F because your block is 5 hours or more. You can book either Y or F for this example and have it reimbursed up to your monthly bank. 4) you legal rest in EWR and take the DL flight in example 2, but this time DL has a YUP fare (a COACH fare that gives you a confirmed first class seat). You may book this type of coach fare and fly first and be fully reimbursed. 5) you legal rest in EWR and take a UA mainline flight from EWR to PIT. Due to a current contract we have with UA, many times first is cheaper than Y. In this case UA Y may cost $300 and UA F may cost $250. The deviation qualifies for coach, but you may book a first fare that's cheaper than coach. If you book via VIPs online route pricing under lowest cost or via a live corporate travel agent they will note the record and you may book this Cheap F fare and be fully reimbursed. 6) you legal rest in EWR and you want to take a DL flight that is sold out in coach but has First for sale. Call corporate travel, they will book F and you'll be reimbursed in FOX even though your deviation qualifies for Y. Corporate travel will note your booking record that this is the case and in the comments section of FOX make the same note when you submit and you will be reimbursed. 7) you DON'T legal rest in EWR (get into EWR at 6am and go to the airport and take an 8 AM flight). Let's say your duty period into EWR on your FedEx trip(s) inbound was 7 hours and your inbound flight time was 3.5 hours. If you take the Nonstop to PIT at 8 AM with 1 hour flight time your duty would be 10.5 and your combined block would be 4.5--neither would qualify you for F. But, if you take a DL flight through ATL that has a block of 2.5 and travel time of 5 hours, your combined block is 6 (now you're still not greater or equal to the 8 required combined trigger) but now your duty day (fedEx scheduled 7 plus 2 hour wait plus 5 hours travel plus 0.5 after DL block in) is now 14.5 hours and because if that your deviation flight now qualifies for F. |
Originally Posted by Raptor
(Post 1805364)
...Careful here. Not necessarily good to go just because your First class fare is less than your bank.
Let's say you have a back end DH for $400 from a trip that ends in EWR. This notional $400 DH bank is for a scheduled Y fare from EWR to MEM after an overnight in EWR. Now let's say you live in PIT. Different examples, with you living in PIT: 1) you legal rest in EWR and take a nonstop on UA express CRJ200 that takes 1 hour. Your deviation qualifies for Y fare. This Y fare costs $500. You can take it as a deviation and you owe the company $100 unless you have other bank that month to cover the excess you spent. 2) you legal rest in EWR and take a DL mainline flight that connects thru ATL and the block time is 2.5 hours total, and your day is 5 hours duty for your deviation to PIT. Your deviation qualifies for Y. If Delta's Y fare is $300 and their F fare is $350, doesn't matter that they are under your bank. You may take the Y deviation and have it fully reimbursed at $300. If you want to fly F on a deviation that as booked only qualifies for Y, that's when you fill out the travel upgrade form and you'll be debited the $50 from your pay. 3) you legal rest in EWR and you take a DL flight connecting through SLC! Your total deviation block is 5 hours and your day is 7 hours. Your deviation qualifies for F because your block is 5 hours or more. You can book either Y or F for this example and have it reimbursed up to your monthly bank. 4) you legal rest in EWR and take the DL flight in example 2, but this time DL has a YUP fare (a COACH fare that gives you a confirmed first class seat). You may book this type of coach fare and fly first and be fully reimbursed. 5) you legal rest in EWR and take a UA mainline flight from EWR to PIT. Due to a current contract we have with UA, many times first is cheaper than Y. In this case UA Y may cost $300 and UA F may cost $250. The deviation qualifies for coach, but you may book a first fare that's cheaper than coach. If you book via VIPs online route pricing under lowest cost or via a live corporate travel agent they will note the record and you may book this Cheap F fare and be fully reimbursed. 6) you legal rest in EWR and you want to take a DL flight that is sold out in coach but has First for sale. Call corporate travel, they will book F and you'll be reimbursed in FOX even though your deviation qualifies for Y. Corporate travel will note your booking record that this is the case and in the comments section of FOX make the same note when you submit and you will be reimbursed. 7) you DON'T legal rest in EWR (get into EWR at 6am and go to the airport and take an 8 AM flight). Let's say your duty period into EWR on your FedEx trip(s) inbound was 7 hours and your inbound flight time was 3.5 hours. If you take the Nonstop to PIT at 8 AM with 1 hour flight time your duty would be 10.5 and your combined block would be 4.5--neither would qualify you for F. But, if you take a DL flight through ATL that has a block of 2.5 and travel time of 5 hours, your combined block is 6 (now you're still not greater or equal to the 8 required combined trigger) but now your duty day (fedEx scheduled 7 plus 2 hour wait plus 5 hours travel plus 0.5 after DL block in) us now 14.5 hours and because if that your deviation flight now qualifies for F. |
Originally Posted by memhubturn
(Post 1805185)
It was between different flights. However, the Travel Upgrade Form allows you to select the type of ticket...Scheduled or Deviation. So, if I select "Deviation" as the ticket type, am I good to go as long as the total fare for my first class deviation ticket is within the max amount I selected?
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Originally Posted by Raptor
(Post 1805373)
I may have misread for my reply above. When you select an amount on your upgrade form, I don't know if that's the amount extra you're willing to pay for the first class ticket or the total ticket amount? Sorry I wasted your time reading my reply post above!
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