Originally Posted by kronan (Post 1807365)

Don't know, or care, what other data airlines provude their crews

I do think we operate closer to MTOGW than pax folks , but don't "kmow" that.

I can think of 3 mishaps/incidents where folks got themselves wrapped up in the go, don't go decision loop and bent the airplane...can't think of a single report where a 121 crew bent metal following an engine failure

With modern engines, failure rate is way lower than the historical norm. If Stop Margun goes away because mgt is freaking over 1 pilot who reportedly bumped freight because of how heavily the acft was loaded on that 1 particular day....I personally, intend to accept the added stress and reduced operating life a TOGA takeoff puts on the motor. IMO-it will be the easiest way for me to be comfortable operating out of short rwys. In the past, that comfort level was provided my knowing my predicted stop margin

Originally Posted by cp44fla (Post 1807379)

There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start.

Originally Posted by Vito (Post 1807402)

Sitting here reading this thread and I'd like to ask my FedEx Bro's a question. What is the "DG Inspection" that you perform prior to flight? At UPS we get a NOTOC form telling us what and where the DG is, but I've never inspected it. Unless I have reason to question the paperwork. Do you guys actually inspect it?
just curious.

Originally Posted by flextodaline (Post 1807406)

The FO is req'd to inspect to make sure it's not leaking/stinking.....like some of our older Captains:D:D

Originally Posted by kronan (Post 1807365)

Don't know, or care, what other data airlines provude their crews

I do think we operate closer to MTOGW than pax folks , but don't "kmow" that.

I can think of 3 mishaps/incidents where folks got themselves wrapped up in the go, don't go decision loop and bent the airplane...can't think of a single report where a 121 crew bent metal following an engine failure

With modern engines, failure rate is way lower than the historical norm. If Stop Margun goes away because mgt is freaking over 1 pilot who reportedly bumped freight because of how heavily the acft was loaded on that 1 particular day....I personally, intend to accept the added stress and reduced operating life a TOGA takeoff puts on the motor. IMO-it will be the easiest way for me to be comfortable operating out of short rwys. In the past, that comfort level was provided my knowing my predicted stop margin

Originally Posted by Huck (Post 1807390)

I say the same about your post.

We use stop margin for one thing: whether to choose another runway or not.

I've never seen a pilot refuse a takeoff because of a small stop margin. I've seen plenty of 777 takeoffs that had a stop margin of less than 250 '.

The stop margin is a tool to see whether the closer runway is acceptable, or whether we need to taxi to a longer runway.

If you take off with a tiny stop margin on a shorter runway (or with a tailwind), when you could have taxied a little longer to a better stop margin, and something happens and you screw up an abort, get ready. NONE of this pressure to use the closest runway is in writing. It's all verbal. It'll just be you sitting at the table, explaining why you decided to not use the big runway. The one that Fred Smith paid for (36C), so we could use it......

Originally Posted by YYESIAV8 (Post 1807093)

Not trying to quibble, but what "historical data" are you citing for more overruns?

While I'm a fan of "data" I think this is becoming one more red herring thrown out there. I believe all major US carriers DON'T provide stop margin data to their crews. I have not seen or heard of a lot of HIGH speed rejects here or even at other airlines. I have heard of a few low speed rejects and most of these have been just after setting T/O power and are more of the "pull it back to idle" and talk about it variety.



I'm sure somebody will provide some examples of high speed rejects. But can we honestly say they are a problem here?

Lots of chaff and flares being tossed out there, not all intended to distract us, but in any case it is.

Originally Posted by MacGuy2 (Post 1807530)

...Just might make a difference whether I reject at V1 or not...
MG2