trashhauler

Tony, from what I've heard(can't verify it all), we got our money's worth from FE because of what he was able to accomplish in D.C. Just sayin! I know everybody on this board likes to complain about all the good deals the Union volunteers get, but nobody talks about the things they accomplish and a lot of it on their own time,ie: not getting paid.

Also Tony, you were saying that the MEC wouldn't let SS run for ALPA president, why not? If having an EVP is good for us, imagine what having the presidency of ALPA would do for us! If that is true, I'm not happy the MEC didn't let him run. Once again we shoot ourselves in the foot.

HIFLYR

Regardless of FE's supposed victories on the hill his services were not retained by vote of the MEC he needs to move on, just as anyone else in his position should.

FDXLAG

Yes let him come on APC and voice his attacks like others who do not feel the love.

kwri10s

Again, really who cares? Do you honestly think we will get a better contract if we have someone on the national board? Will we get lower dues? Will FDX make more money? I fail to see how we get any benefit. So we are not forgotten. What? As far as I can see, ALPA national only gets together and has meetings. What exactly do they do that benefit us as a pilot group? Are they doing something for us that our MEC is unable to accomplish? I appreciate that there has to be someone manning the organization, but I fail to see how we are better for that or that having a FDX pilot helping to manage the national organization will help us. It seems like a complete waste of time and more importantly a waste of focus that should have been laser tight on a fight prior to peak. Not worrying about national office.

Thanks again for the links. I had not read their minutes before and that really gives me additional insight into how petty and small some of our representatives’ are. In this case, as you kind of missed in your buildup, the minutes were of the phone call where the MEC discussed the 13-0 secret phone vote to remove Fred. This phone call meeting (again don't they meet in person every month where all of this could be handled?), was only to discuss the follow up to the secret vote already taken.

As far as I can see by reading, whoever this EVP guy is (I've never heard his name before) is upset that one of our guys was not campaigning for him and was in favor of someone else. SO WHAT. Again Jr High Girls.

If the MEC wants to remove someone...have a go. I can assure you I don't want to volunteer to be the Leg Rep, so now we have to find someone else to do the work. However, I'm not sure what that position is really doing or affecting but maybe it is an important job. Based on age 65 and cargo cutout I'm not sure we are getting our money worth, but that's way out of my knowledge base.

I think based on what I've heard and read (again thanks for the links) the whole process stinks. I don't know who most of these guys are that are our MEC reps, but after reading the minutes you linked, several of them (DR and DG) seem like they are way too concerned about things that don't really matter. We completely missed any chance that peak afforded us. And it sounds like we misfired as a union because we were worried about who gets to be Hall Monitor in Jr High.

There is only one thing the MEC should be focused on right now. Get a great contract. As another year of waiting approaches, all of our positions in negotiations need to be revised upward 5% across the board for additional cost of living expenses. If we cannot get an industry leading contract by negotiating, then how do we get to self help as fast as possible? As a minimum, the only thing I can see that has happened is we are getting is a larger Retro Pay Check. With two 3% years gone by and now a third 3% year starting plus at least a 5% pain penalty, we should be getting 14-15% retro check. With every passing month my minimum acceptable contract benchmark gets higher and higher.

Gunter

Thanks for posting the minutes Tony. Every FDX pilot should read them.

But I think you are mischaracterizing the LAX block rep's comments. They meant to convey how hard it would be to replace the Leg Affairs Chairman.

Your personal dislikes are showing again. You have an old axe to grind.

boxboy

Committee Chairman work at the pleasure of the MEC Chairman. He can hire (with a confirmation vote from the MEC} and fire without a vote, anyone he pleases with or without cause. The MEC Chairman works for the MEC and it they tell him to fire someone he is required to do so period.

The MEC voted to remove a Chairman and directed the MEC Chairman to do so. Why doesn’t matter. Venting our dirty laundry in letters from the MEC to the membership or on public boards does nothing but hurt unity and send management a message we don’t want sent. I’m sure this is why the MEC is reluctant to talk about this publicly. Call your Rep if you want a private explanation.

I’ve seen posts here from people saying they don’t know who the EVP is or who the block reps are. I suggest you find out who you are talking about before opening your mouth. The EVP is one of our former MEC Chairman. You elected the Block Reps you should know who they are.

kwri10s

Really? I know who my rep is. Why do I need to know your rep? I don't care who he is. He/She just needs represent your block. I get about 1 email per year average from my reps. Over the years there have been some reps that sent out more regular updates, but mostly there is no personal connection with the block members. So does it really matter who that person is? No! They are just the ones currently willing to sacrifice their family time to represent me. I appreciate their effort. In general, I feel if you WANT to be an ALPA MEC rep, you are doing it for the wrong reasons. If you have been asked to take time from your family and represent the fellows, and you agree to it. Then thank-you so much. If that is the case, then you won't give a rat's about all this noise. Because those you are representing don't give a rat's about it.

If the EVP has been a MEC rep prior and he's back for more, then he's in it for his own personal reasons. It's got nothing to do with representing the fellows.

Do you know how many times over the years I've been talking with a group of pilots in AOC and had a purple lanyard bubba I did not already know, come over and introduce themselves. Maybe even ask if there are any questions? ZERO!!! NADA!! ZILCH!! Your answer will be if you have questions send your block rep an email. Of course we have questions, they don’t need to wait to be emailed them, just ask. Every single one of us has questions. Some big questions, some small questions. Mostly if we ever bother to send an email, usually all you will get is crickets. If your rep knows you, then you will usually get some sort of answer. They don't mean not to answer; they just get asked lots of questions. They don't have time to answer the small questions since they are busy fighting with each other in the "knitting club". I've never had a rep tell me face to face they will not answer my questions, I've been told they cannot talk about it or they don't know. So I know they want to help, but they cannot. It's the stupid stuff like this. No one cares. Focus on the issue. After we get a quality contract, if they want to sit around and measure their Ds then go ahead. But for now, taking a month off from negotiating to worry about national ALPA when the team was all spun up is just a lack of focus and quite honestly a lack of respect for what we asked them to do. Represent US. Not themselves.

TonyC

I'm sorry that you cannot see the intrinsic value of FedEx pilots being represented in the top 4 leadership positions at ALPA. I don't think we can begin to put a price tag on the added value of FedEx perspective when the First Vice President interacts with industry leaders, lawmakers, and experts around the world. Many people feel like we cargo pilots are the red-headed step children in a world of passenger airlines; well, we have a pretty good seat to go along with the read hair.

How has ALPA national helped us? You think all they do is get together and have meetings? I'm really sorry you feel this way, but I think if you put forth a little effort to learn about what they do, maybe read a few of their regular publications, you might be able to get a taste of the benefits we enjoy. Be thankful the normal retirement age was not changed to 65 and The Company allowed to require you to work 'til 60 for your full retirement. The next time you get to use Known Crew Member, you can thank ALPA National. There are many more benefits, but I'm not going to make that the issue of this thread.

ALPA is just as much OUR organization as it is Delta's or United's, and I'm proud that our Reps attended the meeting and represented the needs and concerns of FedEx pilots. That didn't take focus off of negotiations. The MEC doesn't negotiate; the Negotiating Committee does. Have you read all of their published updates? They didn't cancel negotiating sessions to go to the BOD Mtg. With no sessions scheduled, The Company petitioned the NMB for mediation.

Remember that?




The point was not missed on me that the outcome was a forgone conclusion. I've tried to allow people to gather the facts and reach their own conclusions rather than assume that because I'm saying it, it's not worth their time to listen.

First, let me reiterate this point. No, the MEC does NOT meet in person every month. The word Quarterly was key in my above posts. The MEC has regular QUARTERLY meetings. As conditions warrant, they may have more. They had an extra meeting in December to meet with the NMB -- that was a Special Meeting. When the MEC needs to deal with issues, such as receiving briefings from an officer or a committee chairman, they frequently have telephone conference calls. If some action of the MEC is required, they will convene in a Special Meeting by Telephone Conference. Meetings in person are very expensive. As part of the Secretary-Treasurer's report during this past week's Regular Quarterly Meeting, the Sec-Treas reported that this week's meeting cost a total of $198,832, or about $7,810 per hour. We should be glad they don't have these meetings every month. I'm glad they can conduct business over the phone, when needed.

Now, as you mentioned, the overwhelming majority of the Block Reps (MEC Members) had lost confidence in and sought the resignation of the Committee Chairman. You can also see from the minutes that the Committee Chairman had tendered an oral resignation, but then recanted, and finally, after hearing the opinions of all the MEC members, still refused to resign, instead requested a vote because he "felt the pilots who had stood in support of him would like to have a vote." In other words, he had respect for the wishes of his supporters, but none for the overwhelming opinion of the MEC.

As you observed, before this meeting was convened, the MEC Chairman already knew the wishes of the MEC. Moreover, he had the authority and responsibility to relieve the Committee Chairman of his appointment and avoid the waste of time and the embarrassment of having to go through the process. But rather than act on the wishes of the MEC that elected him, he abdicated that responsibility and let the process drag on to its, as you say, "Junior High Girls" conclusion. He did not exercise the leadership to put the matter to bed.


Well, the Executive Vice President is a pretty important position. Not every airline gets one. A bunch of smaller airlines have to share one. Delta had one, Northwest had one, United had one, Continental had one. That's 4 if you're counting, now they have 2 between them. The other "Group A" EVP is from FedEx. Yepp, we're one of only 3 airlines that have our very own EVP.

ALPA’s Executive Vice-Presidents

When we (FedEx pilots represented by FedEx Pilot's Association (FPA)) merged with ALPA, one of the conditions of the merger was that we would have a Group A EVP. There are minimum requirements of pilots required for that level, and we did not meet it. However, we argued that our dues revenue would put us at the same stature as one of those 4 "Legacy" airlines. Today, that is even more important as our EVP is one of 9 on the Executive Board. It's the 3rd-highest governing body of ALPA, the one that meets most frequently, and the one that will likely be bringing you a dues decrease. Besides Delta, United, and FedEx, the other six EVPs represent 6 individual U.S. airlines each, or 9 Canadian airlines.

So, yes, the EVP is a big deal, and whether you know him or what he does for us, you should appreciate it.

And when our past EVP (we have a new one now, a chance to learn who he is and what he does) ... when our past EVP campaigned for an ALPA National office, he didn't demand everyone support him or like him. What he DID expect was that when the MEC unanimously supported him, that he would not have someone being paid by FedEx ALPA dues dollars to be actively campaigning against him. Your characterization above is not quite accurate.



They did.


They did. If you look at the published Order of Business for this past week's Regular Quarterly Meeting of the MEC, you'll notice 3 candidates -- volunteers, mind you -- interviewed for the appointment.


OK, I'll accept that it's way out of your knowledge base. If you're so inclined, there is knowledge available to you. As I have said before, ignorance is not a personality disorder, it's just a lack of knowledge, and knowledge is an easy cure.


I agree with you that we have missed many opportunities, and that we deserve substantial improvements in our contract. But let's not assume that the MEC can only do one thing at a time. Sure, the most important goal at this time is a new CBA. But they have to manage a lot of things to get there. It's a huge team effort, and supporting them is a whole host of committee volunteers. The MEC has 36 Standing Committees, and each committee member and leader has to be pointed in the same direction as the MEC. If someone goes astray, it's up to the MEC and the Officers the MEC elected to set them straight, or to excuse them.

You know I'm among the first to point out where I think the MEC is screwing up, but the MEC did not cause this problem. They dealt with it.



You should at least know the 3 Reps in your council. You had the opportunity to vote for them, and they all represent the council you're in.

You seem to think that the people who represent you should not be volunteers, they should have a personal connection to you, and they should be responsible for delivering to you the best contract in the world. I disagree. It's not easy work, and I don't want somebody there who doesn't want to be there. I don't want someone phoning it in, or asking the guy next to him at the table how he should vote.

The ideal candidate, in my opinion, is someone who can see problems, identify solutions, and has the drive and energy to make good things happen. He wants to do it because he believes he can make a positive difference. I'll vote for that guy any day, even if I disagree with his ideas and methods, over someone who wants to do it because they will be able to get out of flying so much.

The jobs require a heart of service and a great deal of dedication.


But wait, now you're hurting my feelings! I came over to you in the AOC wearing a purple lanyard. Granted, Carlos introduced us, I didn't introduce myself, but I don't recall being reluctant to talk about anything with you.


If that's how you feel about your Block Rep, you need to let him know. If he doesn't fix it, you need to get rid of him. By the way, based on what you said about only getting one communication from him per year ... I looked at all three Memphis Local Council webpages and the communications they've published. They've all published more than that, a half dozen in the past 2 to 4 months even. If you're not getting them, check that you've got your correct e-mail on file with ALPA. Still, they can only send them, they can't force to you read them.

As for measuring Ds ... that could get interesting with the incoming Block 6 Representative. She might surprise a few people.


One more time, I reiterate. Yes, we need to be focused on getting a contract. The Committee Chairman created a distraction, and the MEC dealt with it. The former Committee Chairman used a Local Council Chairman to create a new distraction. That's the topic of this thread. It needs to be stopped so that the MEC can deal with its primary goal -- the contract.






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TonyC

Simple reason: we are in Section 6 negotiations -- his first priority should be getting us a contract.


It's funny. DW was accused repeatedly of doing things so he could get to ALPA National. If he had run for ALPA President against Prater, he would have most likely won, but he would have been excoriated by FedEx pilots. He did not run because we didn't have a contract. (We were only days away from the ratification vote closing, but we technically only had a TA, not a contract.) Now it's a different MEC Chairman, and people want to know why he didn't run. Go figger.






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TonyC

I tried to not mischaracterize, and that's why I quoted rather than paraphrasing. Do I believe he literally spent than many days in DC? No, but it's indicative of the magnitude of time he has spent there or other places on our dues dollars. That's a lot of days he will now have to commute from the east coast to Anchorage.

As I mentioned above, finding a volunteer to replace him wasn't all that hard.


It's getting harder to discern where the axe grinds these days. After posing these questions at the Joint Council Meeting I had one person who I considered a friend and ally leaning into my face with a pointed finger and yelling in anger, while on the other hand I had people who orchestrated or supported recalls thanking me. Some of the most positive comments came from people who shocked me with their support. It's a funny thing.

Yeah, I have biases, and sometimes I still let them slip. But this kind of monkey business, Article VIII charges because a guy's unhappy about being relieved from an appointment, shouldn't be tolerated or condoned by anybody, regardless of politics, cliques, or allegiances.






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