Pep Rallies and mob mentality
03-18-2015, 06:44 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MD CA
Posts: 705
That was a "bought" Judge based in Texas. Imagine that. And the APA really didn't promote the situation but got screwed in the end. They did pay half or a little less in the end. But it was caused by the MIA Domicile Pilots calling out Sick, since they were more than upset over the RENO Air merger. The APA really can't force someone not to call in Sick, but the Judge from Dallas disagreed. A buddy of Crandell's by the way. You have hundreds of Judge's out there, and can probably get a hundred different decisions.
03-18-2015, 08:03 AM
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 43
Originally Posted by Commando
That was a "bought" Judge based in Texas. Imagine that. And the APA really didn't promote the situation but got screwed in the end. They did pay half or a little less in the end. But it was caused by the MIA Domicile Pilots calling out Sick, since they were more than upset over the RENO Air merger. The APA really can't force someone not to call in Sick, but the Judge from Dallas disagreed. A buddy of Crandell's by the way. You have hundreds of Judge's out there, and can probably get a hundred different decisions.
Aww. How pweicious! Commando thinks that there are un-bought judges still!
03-18-2015, 08:24 AM
#13
Part Time Employee
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
Posts: 1,918
Originally Posted by azoomietheist
Aww. How pweicious! Commando thinks that there are un-bought judges still!
03-18-2015, 08:49 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by Commando
You have hundreds of Judge's out there, and can probably get a hundred different decisions.
After the APA case, there was a more recent case (around 2008) against UAL ALPA and some of their individual pilots. The airline won, ALPA appealed and lost again.
I think we are now dealing with issues of precedence regarding previous rulings on this. We may be able to get a hundred different decisions from other judges, but the one that matters is the one from the judge who ruled in the APA and/or UAL cases. Once there is a ruling, it's not like we get a clean slate and just have to find a judge who thinks differently. Whatever judge we might get would be bound by previous rulings in most situations.
In the UAL ALPA case, the use of online communication was a huge factor. I don't remember what sort of penalty was imposed. It may have just been an injunction but either way, they lost.
In addition to UAL ALPA, some of the defendants in the case were individual pilots using electronic bulletin boards and other forms of communication. This fact is huge. Individual pilots were defendants in the lawsuit. Much of their communications were not using an official ALPA bulletin board or emailing in an official ALPA capacity. They were not even working for ALPA in any official capacity and some were already furloughed. My point though, is their online communications were used against them to prove allegations of an illegal job action. Here are a couple of relevant excerpts from the appeal ruling upholding the original decision: (bold additions from me)
Phrases such as “work safe,” “work by the book,” “adhere to strict contractual requirements,” “not to neglect even the most minor write ups,” “check every item on the checklists,” were all recognized as coded signals to engage in a slow-down. In ALPA, we suggested that statistical evidence(of actions taken by pilots) plus a notice posted on a union's bulletin board could suffice as clear proof.
Second, and more importantly, the court also relied on the many messages that the defendants(specific pilots) conveyed to the pilots during the relevant time frame. Among those messages were repeated directives to “fly the contract,” to not waive any part of the contract, to decline junior/senior manning assignments, to “fix it now,” and to “work-to-rule.” Some of these directives appeared on websites and in mass e-mails, the twenty-first-century equivalents of a bulletin board.
