Adlerdriver

A proponent of the "train like you fight...etc." philosophy might find just a little irony in your complaint.

CargoCan

I don't think so. It is one thing to operate in the middle of the night. It is something totally different when you try and learn how to operate in the middle of the night. Apples and oranges in my opinion.

Albief15

I had nine 0400 sim periods during MAN, OPS, and INTL phase. I never claimed to be Chuck Yeager when it comes to flying any sims, and have always felt much more comfortable flying the (real) jet on the line than I did in the box. I always get through it, but sometimes feel (at least in initial training) like I am trying to wear clothes that don't fit quite right and never get "comfortable". That said, I know the idea of the sim is to reinforce muscle memory and procedures so you can have those skills readily available on the line when you need them.

That said, flying at 0400 after years in a jet and trying to LEARN new stuff at 0400 are different animals. I have to say there were some mornings I was looking at the clock on the display just waiting for the next 90, 60, or 45 minutes to pass. My ability to absorb new info sort of shut down after about 60-90 minutes. Sometimes--the mid sim break would help. Other times--honestly--I was so tired I just didn't care. This was the first time I went through training without that 2Lt at UPT enthusiasm...no reflection on my motivation to do the new job or the very good instructors...just the fact I felt like I was often only 50-60% there. I wanted to enjoy training (I did enjoy the MD11 training 6 years ago...even the "death by LOFT"), but most days it was just wanting to get it over. I wish I could have enjoyed it more, and perhaps even learned more, but results were obviously "good enough" and now its time for the next phase.

What I think is even more concerning is the capt/capt pairings some folks are having to do. Learning a new jet at 4 am is a challenge. Learning a new jet, getting only 1/2 the seat time (and thus set-ups, etc) and also being pseudo-responsible for learning the other seat flows and callouts, etc makes it much, much worse. I'd take 0400 sims over 1/2 the seat time any day, and I was lucky to have a dedicated FO as my partner.

I've always been told do not complain about something without a possible solution in mind. With the limited number of sims we have, the only solution I can offer is expensive--more sims or sim time off site. Save the 0400 box for CT sims...let guys who are motivated or need the extra time grab some additional time. Not sure how we got over 100 757s on 3 sims...if it was by design or if thinks just got away from them, but its far from ideal. In the short term, I would just advise guys going to training to do the best they can and just practice, practice, practice mentally when they are awake so that they can overcome some of the 0400 fog. Its hard to want to finesse things when you are dragging at 0630 after a 1-3 am wakeup, and I found trying to recall and apply things that I was reviewing at 3pm a challenge. It comes--but a beat or two behind where it would normally show up...

Adlerdriver

Easy now. I did put one of these on my post.

MaydayMark

Are you sure that is true (or maybe someone "heard" it on the crew bus)? I know HKG pilots that are in 767 training in MEM today and have been for several weeks?

MaxKts

Maybe it's your comprehension of his statement. Yes there are HKG pilots in the sim. But the ones that have not yet started and are still in HKG have had their training dates slid. Did you really think they would send them all back to MEM at the same time to train?

FDXLAG

I seem to remember at least 4 727 sims in Memphis and we still had off site sims (lots of them) during the hiring boom of 99-01. We have got to be close to the same umber of 75 & 76 crews as we had for the whisper jet. The capacity to train has to be maxed out.

A PS for albie, the 75 sim flys better than the 75 but is worse than the 76. Must have something to do with 50 thousand cycles.

MaxKts

I haven't flown the 76 but the 75 aircraft still fly's better than any sim I've been in!

Iwa Washi

To make matters worse, all of your validation events CAN'T be in the middle of the night due to the CBA. So after a slew of 02:00 briefs/04:00-08:00 sims, you end up doing your PV, MV, and LOE in the middle of the day. Then you go back to the middle of the night during the next phase. The end result is you end up swapping body clocks several times during training. Pretty soon, no matter how hard you try to manage your rest/sleep cycles in order to be fresh for the next event, you find yourself lying in bed, tired, but unable to sleep because your body doesn't know WHEN the hell it is anymore, and you show up for the next brief as a zombie.

This was absolutely the most fatiguing training evolution I have ever experienced and at times I felt it was more restful flying the line.

Rock

Note to self...don't move anywhere during the next bid.