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-   -   FedEx/TNT (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/92090-fedex-tnt.html)

Creaky 12-07-2015 10:27 PM

FedEx/TNT
 
Press release from the Belgian pilots union that represents TNT pilots. Although the merger ship has likely sailed, it is
to see what they think of the inter-European ops of FedEx and UPS.


Press Release
FedEx-TNT Merge:
FedEx's Questionable Operations Threatens Employment in Europe
Six months after FedEx's announcement of its attempt to take over the TNT Express group, the future of the Belgian airline, TNT Airways, and of its 500 employees - including 270 pilots - remains unsettled. BeCA, supported by its European structure (ECA), calls the European Commission to analyse the US airline's current operations in Europe, which breach the European social legislation, violate EU-US free trade agreements ('Open Skies') and threatens employment in Europe.
Should this merge be approved, it would be a new violation of EU-US 'Open Skies' agreements. Indeed, although these agreements allow flights between Europe and the US, they prohibit cargo transportation by American planes and crews within European borders (apart from a few exceptions). BeCA/ECA already denounced a few years ago UPS & FedEx's practices in this respect. However, the European Commission has never reacted, allowing de facto these two US airlines to deliver intra-European cargo services, whilst the opposite is strictly prohibited.
Besides, since 2011, Germany authorises FedEx to base its pilots on their Cologne hub, for 5 years maximum. Nevertheless, BeCA discovered recently that these pilots mainly operate from Charles-de-Gaulle airport, in Paris. According to the new European legislation, FedEx must pay social contributions in France and not in Germany, which is apparently not the case.
Finally, FedEx's pilots signed an agreement with their management to operate all airplanes with a takeoff weight above 30 tons. Given that TNT Airways only operates airplanes with a higher weight, this provision could restrain its ambition to freely operate for the group, as an independent airline, leading to more American pilots flying in Europe. For BeCA/ECA, it is unacceptable that a social agreement between US pilots and their management has such impacts on European employment.
For all these reasons, BeCA and ECA calls the European Commission to carefully examine these three issues before taking its final decision on the merge, in order to preserve European employment and cargo and guarantee enforcement of free trade agreements and social legislation. Both associations will organise a joint press conference on 26 October, at 11 AM, in BeCA headquarters – Avenue du Renouveau 25/43, 1140 Brussels.
Brussels, 21 October 2015

767pilot 12-08-2015 03:07 PM


Originally Posted by Creaky (Post 2023395)
Indeed, although these agreements allow flights between Europe and the US, they prohibit cargo transportation by American planes and crews within European borders (apart from a few exceptions).

Much to the chagrin of our pilots, I'd say that UPS goes to great lengths to operate within those "few exceptions"

Raptor 12-08-2015 03:09 PM

Doesn't FedEx have some unique flight rights due to Flying Tigers agreements?

Adlerdriver 12-08-2015 04:23 PM


Originally Posted by Raptor (Post 2023936)
Doesn't FedEx have some unique flight rights due to Flying Tigers agreements?

I believe we acquire some fifth freedom rights from the FT merger, but that still doesn't provide us cabotage rights within Germany. I'm really not sure how we've been able to do that without someone waving the BS flag until now.

FDXLAG 12-08-2015 04:28 PM

Is cabotage a player if we don't fly German freight intra Germany?

AC560 12-08-2015 04:37 PM


Originally Posted by Raptor (Post 2023936)
Doesn't FedEx have some unique flight rights due to Flying Tigers agreements?

PA/FT/NW got the 5th freedom rights in Japan, only PA got the German rights.

Adlerdriver 12-08-2015 04:46 PM


Originally Posted by FDXLAG (Post 2023992)
Is cabotage a player if we don't fly German freight intra Germany?

I don't know. If things are parsed out down to that level of detail, perhaps that's how they're doing it. However, the above article seems to treat all of the EU as the "country" with respect to their protest, rather than the traditional individual country borders.

CloudSailor 12-08-2015 05:47 PM


Originally Posted by FDXLAG (Post 2023992)
Is cabotage a player if we don't fly German freight intra Germany?

I think we actually do from CGN to MUC.

Gotta feel for those TNT guys, and hope that this acquisition brings good things to both our pilot group, and their's.

Twin Wasp 12-08-2015 07:39 PM

Have they read the agreement? Found this in the "Official Journal of the European Union" -



the right to perform international air transportation between points on the following routes:
(i) for airlines of the United States (hereinafter US airlines), from points behind the United States via the United States and intermediate points to any point or points in any Member State or States and beyond; and for all-cargo service, between any Member State and any point or points (including in any other Member States);

Adlerdriver 12-08-2015 11:54 PM


Originally Posted by CloudSailor (Post 2024055)
I think we actually do from CGN to MUC.

777 has a pairing that does CGN-CDG-MUC-FRA (3 legs in a 777 ? :confused:... I digress)

I think what Lag is saying is maybe they bring outbound German freight to Paris on the first leg. Then pick up a full load of stuff destined for Germany once there, dropping it in MUC and FRA on the next two legs. But, not picking up new German stuff in MUC and dropping it in FRA.

I have no clue if that sort of thing is the way it was meant to work or a loophole.

I also wonder: A German shipped a package from Cologne to Munich. Can it go there via Paris on the first two legs of the above trip and not be considered cabotage since it wasn't flown directly within the borders of Germany?

Birdstrikes 12-09-2015 01:35 AM

Many of the TNT freighters are flown by subcontracted airlines. Even SouthernAir operated a 777F for them a few years ago. Titan Leasing (Atlas Worldwide) now owns the 3 TNT B777F's. I'll be curious to see what happens to those aircraft.

CloudSailor 12-09-2015 02:16 AM


Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 2024235)
777 has a pairing that does CGN-CDG-MUC-FRA (3 legs in a 777 ? :confused:... I digress)

Exactly :D. Makes some 757 domestic trips look quite tame.



Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 2024235)
I also wonder: A German shipped a package from Cologne to Munich. Can it go there via Paris on the first two legs of the above trip and not be considered cabotage since it wasn't flown directly within the borders of Germany?

I'm curious about that as well since we saw freight going from CGN to MUC. Not sure if it then went on the 777 or the MD11 to go on to FRA and then to the U.S. I would imagine it's tracked pretty closely by German/EU authorities.

USMCFDX 12-09-2015 07:18 AM


Originally Posted by Birdstrikes (Post 2024252)
Many of the TNT freighters are flown by subcontracted airlines. Even SouthernAir operated a 777F for them a few years ago. Titan Leasing (Atlas Worldwide) now owns the 3 TNT B777F's. I'll be curious to see what happens to those aircraft.

Are you sure about the owerniship? Rumor around the schoolhouse says that is not the owner and the 3 planes are coming to us.

I have no facts or proof, just a schoolhouse rumor, and you know how good that is.

FDXLAG 12-09-2015 07:33 AM


Originally Posted by CloudSailor (Post 2024259)

I'm curious about that as well since we saw freight going from CGN to MUC. Not sure if it then went on the 777 or the MD11 to go on to FRA and then to the U.S. I would imagine it's tracked pretty closely by German/EU authorities.

They way I understand it freight can go from CGN-FRA-EWR. I am no expert but, at least in the old days, you just couldn't unload CGN freight in FRA. Much like it used to be legal to fly British Airways from LA to London via JFK, you just couldn't fly LA to JFK on a foreign flagged carrier.

Birdstrikes 12-09-2015 07:33 AM


Originally Posted by USMCFDX (Post 2024414)
Are you sure about the owerniship? Rumor around the schoolhouse says that is not the owner and the 3 planes are coming to us.

I have no facts or proof, just a schoolhouse rumor, and you know how good that is.

Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings

I'm 98% sure these are the 3 TNT B777F's. Titan also owns and leases back 2 of the AeroLogic 777F's and 1 Emirates B777F.

Creaky 12-15-2015 12:59 AM

How about the 74's? Any idea if TNT owns them or if they are leased?

miyagi 06-11-2016 10:27 AM

Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings, Inc.
Fleet (as of May 2016)


ACMI and Charter Segments:
• 33 Boeing freighter aircraft (ten 747-8s, 21 747-400s and two 747-400BCF/BDSFs)
• 4 Boeing Large Cargo Freighters (Boeing-owned – in CMI service)
• 4 Boeing 747-400 passenger aircraft (two in charter service; two provided by SonAir – in CMI service)
• 5 Boeing 777-200 freighter aircraft (provided by DHL Express – in CMI service)
• 5 Boeing 737-400 freighter aircraft (provided by DHL Express – in CMI service)
• 3 Boeing 767-300 passenger aircraft (in charter service)
• 1 Boeing 767-300 equivalent freighter aircraft (Florida West)
• 4 Boeing 767-300 freighter aircraft (provided by DHL Express – in CMI service)
• 9 Boeing 767-200 freighter aircraft (provided by DHL Express – in CMI service)
• 1 Boeing 767-200 passenger aircraft (provided by MLW Air – in CMI service)

Dry Leasing Segment:
• 6 Boeing 777 freighter aircraft (three leased to TNT; two to AeroLogic GmbH; one to Emirates) • 2 Boeing 767-300 freighter aircraft (both leased to DHL Express)
• 1 Boeing 757-200 freighter aircraft (leased to DHL Express)
• 1 Boeing 737-800 passenger aircraft (leased to Corendon Airlines)
• 1 Boeing 737-300 freighter aircraft (leased to China Postal Airlines)

The fleet above includes two 767-300s that are both dry leased to DHL Express and operated for them under separate CMI agreements.

Source: http://www.atlasair.com/holdings/Cor...May%202016.pdf


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