ATI Jumpseat - Denied
01-25-2017, 12:26 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 896
Concerning my enlightenment from management (letter of instruction) I come to find that according to our VP (BB) it was directed by JH himself. I feel honored to have uncle JH to take precious minutes of his day from running a corporation to assist in my development as a good citizen. I thank him daily. Hahahahaaha
01-31-2017, 01:31 AM
#64
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: 767 Newby
Posts: 25
Do you still believe in the tooth fairy, also? Your account of the events at 747 is completely misrepresentative of the facts. The President of 747 was not replaced with a 1224 member. The President was removed, and oversight of the Local turned over to a Trustee. Huge difference.
The demise of 747 was used as an opportunity to allow the airlines flying large aircraft to merge into 1224. Nobody was forced to do so, as the WOA pilots declined to move and stayed at Local 986. The debacle at 747 was handled about as well as it could be by the Airline Division. David Bourne inherited a S&%$storm, and IMHO managed the problem well. It was during this period where the IBT came into it's own providing stellar representation to the pilots of ACMI carriers.
The demise of 747 was used as an opportunity to allow the airlines flying large aircraft to merge into 1224. Nobody was forced to do so, as the WOA pilots declined to move and stayed at Local 986. The debacle at 747 was handled about as well as it could be by the Airline Division. David Bourne inherited a S&%$storm, and IMHO managed the problem well. It was during this period where the IBT came into it's own providing stellar representation to the pilots of ACMI carriers.
Originally Posted by DC81
Time for a little trip down memory lane. ATI Pilots have never been on the offensive toward ABX crews or any one else for that matter. The same cannot be said for ABX crews and their Teamsters representation. Years ago ATI was originally represented by the Teamsters Local 747 out of Houston Texas. After becoming part of the ATSG family, our union president was accused by the Teamsters National Airline Division of professional misconduct. Subsequently, our local was stormed without prior notification and our President was removed from the property. He was immediately replaced by a sitting member of local 1224. We were currently in the middle of contract negotiations and, as allowed by Teamsters bylaws, were dis-invited to our own negotiation sessions. 1224 started negotiating for us without our input. This is why we are represented by ALPA at this time. Our EXCO and 100% of our crew members voted to decertify the Teamsters and we subsequently expedited our acceptance into ALPA. You want to talk about Teamsters pride. We were betrayed by our own Union. This Jumpseat war started over a decade ago. ATI pilots are tired of the constant threat to our jobs by 1224. The threat of filing for single carrier status has been on the table for years. It will fail. Just as taking over our Local 747 failed years ago. Ironically, had ABX simply left ATI alone both airlines could have prospered. Aircraft for Amazon were planned to be split between both Airlines. however, since the illegal strike by ABX pilots, which only served to hurt the customer on black Friday and the Xmas peak transpired it looks like ATI will get at least 16 out of the original twenty. Interesting, considering that 1224 recently proposed to ATSG management that ABX get all Amazon flying, all DHL flying and that ATI would be "allowed" to continue our Combi flying for the military. No way in hell will an ABX pilot ever sit on my jumpseat. As far as reciprocity goes, guess I will just have to get the company to buy me a ticket. Perhaps ABX crews should be less critical of our MEC and take a hard look at the actions of their exco.
03-05-2019, 08:54 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 207
Here we are again.....
It appears that in the recent past ABX pilot(s) are being denied jumpseat rides to/from work on ATI. Generally, and I think most will agree, jumpseating and personal issues [with another pilot group] do not belong in the cockpit. Personal differences should be kept at bay for the very purpose of being able to continue to utilize various carriers from all representative groups (Alpa, Teamsters, IPA, etc.). After all, if one has a bone to pick, it is with the concept of the whole/group and not the individual.
While I have not experienced any denial from ATI (and I regularly utilize their seat..), others have. From the information I received they were denied without cause or reason (meaning the j/s pilot did nothing wrong or provocative). In the latest case, the ATI captain denied the seat before the pilot even showed up at the aircraft! (ATI Ops contacted the pilot to inform him of the operating captains denial).
I post this information as reference and to better inform those who are not aware of this issue. Hopefully other ATI pilots (which is the vast majority) will seek out those who are having some sort of personal issue or vendetta against jumpseating pilots. I don't know if their problem is limited to ABX pilots or not....but my guess would be that is the case.
I happily invite ATI pilots to respond, or anyone else for that matter, especially if it's in a positive and productive approach to resolving these issues.
As a side note..the 2 captains who have taken this recent approach are former CCI pilots and not legacy ATI. I will not publicly post their names.....that certainly isn't the road to happiness
It appears that in the recent past ABX pilot(s) are being denied jumpseat rides to/from work on ATI. Generally, and I think most will agree, jumpseating and personal issues [with another pilot group] do not belong in the cockpit. Personal differences should be kept at bay for the very purpose of being able to continue to utilize various carriers from all representative groups (Alpa, Teamsters, IPA, etc.). After all, if one has a bone to pick, it is with the concept of the whole/group and not the individual.
While I have not experienced any denial from ATI (and I regularly utilize their seat..), others have. From the information I received they were denied without cause or reason (meaning the j/s pilot did nothing wrong or provocative). In the latest case, the ATI captain denied the seat before the pilot even showed up at the aircraft! (ATI Ops contacted the pilot to inform him of the operating captains denial).
I post this information as reference and to better inform those who are not aware of this issue. Hopefully other ATI pilots (which is the vast majority) will seek out those who are having some sort of personal issue or vendetta against jumpseating pilots. I don't know if their problem is limited to ABX pilots or not....but my guess would be that is the case.
I happily invite ATI pilots to respond, or anyone else for that matter, especially if it's in a positive and productive approach to resolving these issues.
As a side note..the 2 captains who have taken this recent approach are former CCI pilots and not legacy ATI. I will not publicly post their names.....that certainly isn't the road to happiness
03-05-2019, 09:47 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Position: B-757/767 Left Right Left, aww, who can keep up...
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by abxflyr
I happily invite ATI pilots to respond, or anyone else for that matter, especially if it's in a positive and productive approach to resolving these issues.
As a side note..the 2 captains who have taken this recent approach are former CCI pilots and not legacy ATI. I will not publicly post their names.....that certainly isn't the road to happiness
Spot on and, as usual, a very reasonable and professional argument, flyr.
Finding a way to end posts like the one above from the enlightened "new hire" (or should I say troll...) would certainly help. I'm guessing neither of the two mentioned have ever needed or used an ABX jump seat. Maybe the same is true of the pot-stirring noisemakers here regarding their need of an ATI jump seat. Regardless, they're poisoning their own well.
It's difficult to get past old history (for some of us more than others, apparently) when it's constantly shoved in our faces. The problem exists on both sides of our shared fence.
Last edited by b707guy; 03-05-2019 at 10:11 AM.
03-05-2019, 10:07 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Position: B-757/767 Left Right Left, aww, who can keep up...
Posts: 243
And, for what it's worth, I've accepted every ABX jump seater who's needed a lift over the years, and I have no plans to do anything otherwise in the future. But, in all honesty, it's not easy to avoid wondering whether the "nice guy at the bottom of the steps" wasn't talking smack about us only 10 minutes before among his peers.
03-05-2019, 11:11 AM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Position: B-757/767 Left Right Left, aww, who can keep up...
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by dogo
Sounds like either paranoia or guilt
Many do keep a "list", but I don't. So it isn't paranoia. And no one's given me a reason to deny them a seat. So, since I fly with a clear conscience, it isn't guilt. More along the lines of learning from the past, and from the old grown-up adage of "trust, but verify". A concept that might be new to those of us who have never had children, or who might still be children themselves.
Must be something more like keeping professional courtesy at the forefront.
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