Swift Air - The truth
02-21-2019, 12:05 PM
#241
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,235
Originally Posted by mexipilot84
That’s actually a 2 year old program. However no one has ever gone through it. The problem is the agreement is broken because a 2500TT CFI just has zero experience flying a big jet. Why would someone stay being a CFI for that long when they can go to a regional when they reach ATP or rATP mins. Just doesn’t make sense and doesn’t help the airline keep it stocked with experience.
The only bridge program that’s really active is with the 1step prep people. It’s a preferential interview process if they complete it. They still have to meet our requirements and pass an interview. I don’t really agree with it as it deters is from us selecting our people. Plus why would you pay to get this job if you meet our requirements.
The only bridge program that’s really active is with the 1step prep people. It’s a preferential interview process if they complete it. They still have to meet our requirements and pass an interview. I don’t really agree with it as it deters is from us selecting our people. Plus why would you pay to get this job if you meet our requirements.
02-21-2019, 05:46 PM
#243
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Gear Handle supervisor
Posts: 1,035
Originally Posted by PICsf340
Any Swift guys have intel on crash pads near the MIA area? Hopefully something that won’t require a car. Thanks
There’s quite a few run by AA people. One of our CAs used to be a co-owner of one. Many have transportation or are close to a bus or shuttle that takes you to MIA.
02-21-2019, 05:47 PM
#244
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Gear Handle supervisor
Posts: 1,035
Originally Posted by SoFloFlyer
Interesting.. I heard of it, but I never got all the details. Thanks for the head’s up!
Yep they’ve tried different avenues, not exactly the best route.
02-22-2019, 07:37 AM
#245
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Gear Handle supervisor
Posts: 1,035
Originally Posted by randomroute
Miami air is not going anywhere. They've just purchased a plane with split scimitar winglets and refitted a second in MIA the other day. If youre coming to Swift you have to know how to skim the water from the top of the Kool-Aid.
Everyhing in aviation is backed up by a number. So lets look at the numbers. Keep in mind Swift’ growth is limited by captain availability. In the past 2 months theyve hired several street captains (4), upgraded some reformed problem children and ‘senior’ F/O’ (5), and upgraded some individuals initially hired as F/O’s (2)(during training) just because they had B-7x7 on their cert cards.
Thats 11 captains in less than a month’s time.
As of right now there are...
...64 captains
(including the 5 senior F/O upgrades)
...48 first officers
...20 pilots awaiting IOE
(including the 2 Boeing typed F/O’s in training).
That will make the March seniority list eventually read...
...66 captains
...66 first officers.
These numbers do not include checkairman and training instructors who also fly the line.
So realizing the company will have 66 crew-pairs next month, and not conduct any training for upgrades, you can see they will continue to hire street captains so as to not pull F/O’s off the line. That sounds like a good and even number to maintain for an operation that has 27 planes operating at one time.
But what does that mean for new hires? As is obvious, and has been mentioned before, captains are selected at random-not out of seniority, not out of merit, and perhaps from the street. To those giving up a PIC position to come to Swift without actually being offered a “captain” position, you will be a critical component of the right seat operation to plug right seat attrition (internal and external). There is no accurate timeline to plan on upgrade so it is safest to not expect it for at least a year. If the company wants you to be a captain, they will tell you. If not, plan for the next slot based on operational convenience. This is a charter company. Despite having an airline feel, airline logic and rules and pay dont work here. Seniority is useful only for a line to bid/work. Your classmates will be your captains.
At this moment I am certain there will be no more growth as the COO’s email earlier this year stated 10 captain upgrades and 11 have already made the grade. Theres been no announcement of aircraft growth.
First Officer pay cannot supplement the necessity of a crash pad and the maintenance of whatever financial obligations that exist outside of Swift. Keep in mind too, that the only way for a pilot to earn, is to work on days off. Bid lines dont credit over guarantee. The assignments that can earn over guarantee are senior and on the homebased side of the operation. This is why I recommend people stay away and let the pilot package increase. Better to stay away and not develop a disgruntled nature-as so many have.
Apply and work here. Just be prepared for the nonstandard work environment. Ladder climbers and union types will not do well here.
To those of you who PM me, just reference the posts in this thread. Its easier to put the good word out for all than to type the same message out 10-20x.
Swift is a good place to work, and offers an opportunity to fly a 737. As of this writing I havent seen any shady MX practice or abuse of 117 rules.
What say you tiredsoul? Is the upgrade thing what primarily ****ed you off? Its definitely not a fair way of operating, especially to those who have to take an extended paycut.
Everyhing in aviation is backed up by a number. So lets look at the numbers. Keep in mind Swift’ growth is limited by captain availability. In the past 2 months theyve hired several street captains (4), upgraded some reformed problem children and ‘senior’ F/O’ (5), and upgraded some individuals initially hired as F/O’s (2)(during training) just because they had B-7x7 on their cert cards.
Thats 11 captains in less than a month’s time.
As of right now there are...
...64 captains
(including the 5 senior F/O upgrades)
...48 first officers
...20 pilots awaiting IOE
(including the 2 Boeing typed F/O’s in training).
That will make the March seniority list eventually read...
...66 captains
...66 first officers.
These numbers do not include checkairman and training instructors who also fly the line.
So realizing the company will have 66 crew-pairs next month, and not conduct any training for upgrades, you can see they will continue to hire street captains so as to not pull F/O’s off the line. That sounds like a good and even number to maintain for an operation that has 27 planes operating at one time.
But what does that mean for new hires? As is obvious, and has been mentioned before, captains are selected at random-not out of seniority, not out of merit, and perhaps from the street. To those giving up a PIC position to come to Swift without actually being offered a “captain” position, you will be a critical component of the right seat operation to plug right seat attrition (internal and external). There is no accurate timeline to plan on upgrade so it is safest to not expect it for at least a year. If the company wants you to be a captain, they will tell you. If not, plan for the next slot based on operational convenience. This is a charter company. Despite having an airline feel, airline logic and rules and pay dont work here. Seniority is useful only for a line to bid/work. Your classmates will be your captains.
At this moment I am certain there will be no more growth as the COO’s email earlier this year stated 10 captain upgrades and 11 have already made the grade. Theres been no announcement of aircraft growth.
First Officer pay cannot supplement the necessity of a crash pad and the maintenance of whatever financial obligations that exist outside of Swift. Keep in mind too, that the only way for a pilot to earn, is to work on days off. Bid lines dont credit over guarantee. The assignments that can earn over guarantee are senior and on the homebased side of the operation. This is why I recommend people stay away and let the pilot package increase. Better to stay away and not develop a disgruntled nature-as so many have.
Apply and work here. Just be prepared for the nonstandard work environment. Ladder climbers and union types will not do well here.
To those of you who PM me, just reference the posts in this thread. Its easier to put the good word out for all than to type the same message out 10-20x.
Swift is a good place to work, and offers an opportunity to fly a 737. As of this writing I havent seen any shady MX practice or abuse of 117 rules.
What say you tiredsoul? Is the upgrade thing what primarily ****ed you off? Its definitely not a fair way of operating, especially to those who have to take an extended paycut.
Considering we have 155 pilots and management wants 200 total by summer. That’s 45 more pilots we need to be at a stable compliment. I doubt that will be enough for their ambitions, because as soon as they see personnel on the plus side they will bid some contract that will put us back understaffed.
02-22-2019, 03:48 PM
#246
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,082
What say you tiredsoul? Is the upgrade thing what primarily ****ed you off? Its definitely not a fair way of operating, especially to those who have to take an extended paycut.
Thanks for taking the time to put all that info down by the way.
02-22-2019, 06:07 PM
#247
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 39
[QUOTE=But what does that mean for new hires? As is obvious, and has been mentioned before, captains are selected at random-not out of seniority, not out of merit, and perhaps from the street. To those giving up a PIC position to come to Swift without actually being offered a “captain” position, you will be a critical component of the right seat operation to plug right seat attrition (internal and external). There is no accurate timeline to plan on upgrade so it is safest to not expect it for at least a year. If the company wants you to be a captain, they will tell you. If not, plan for the next slot based on operational convenience. This is a charter company. Despite having an airline feel, airline logic and rules and pay dont work here. Seniority is useful only for a line to bid/work. Your classmates will be your captains. [/QUOTE]
For a company that has tons of ambition to grow, this doesn't favor them. On one hand, if they hire experience 121 Captains on the right seat while offering them year or less upgrade, the company will have to fulfill its promise. Otherwise, these guys will leave. On the other hand, if they hire guys with no experience, they are experiencing training issues, similarly to what Sun Country was experiencing.
The company is already struggling to hire FO's given low pay. If they want the other 15 or whatever numbers of airplanes that are in the desert to fly, they will have to raise pay and make these guys captain.
Like I said, there is a pilot currently in IOE that went left seat out of SIM. CP came in class and pointed out guys that were eligible left seat and can expect upgrade right out of training. There were 2 DEC. The other person with 737 type has 0 hours flying 121 and very minimal fixed wing time.
As far as Miami Air is concerned, whether the acquire scimitar split wing aircrafts or not, they have what Swift air owners want. 737-800's. The new group is speculated to take over Miami Air, and nothing is stopping them. The upper management has hinted the future of the company as similar to Allegiant Air. Take for what it is worth.
For a company that has tons of ambition to grow, this doesn't favor them. On one hand, if they hire experience 121 Captains on the right seat while offering them year or less upgrade, the company will have to fulfill its promise. Otherwise, these guys will leave. On the other hand, if they hire guys with no experience, they are experiencing training issues, similarly to what Sun Country was experiencing.
The company is already struggling to hire FO's given low pay. If they want the other 15 or whatever numbers of airplanes that are in the desert to fly, they will have to raise pay and make these guys captain.
Like I said, there is a pilot currently in IOE that went left seat out of SIM. CP came in class and pointed out guys that were eligible left seat and can expect upgrade right out of training. There were 2 DEC. The other person with 737 type has 0 hours flying 121 and very minimal fixed wing time.
As far as Miami Air is concerned, whether the acquire scimitar split wing aircrafts or not, they have what Swift air owners want. 737-800's. The new group is speculated to take over Miami Air, and nothing is stopping them. The upper management has hinted the future of the company as similar to Allegiant Air. Take for what it is worth.
02-23-2019, 08:01 AM
#248
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,082
Desperation has meant all pilots get a trophy. Anywhere else they’d be on the street.
Its challenging to stay positive
Its challenging to stay positive
And getting the opportunity of a lifetime that also....
02-24-2019, 02:01 AM
#249
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Position: B767
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by randomroute
Interesting, well I hate to say it, but that seems like the CP’s typical fare.
From the time of the interview up until Indoc, there will be/have been promises of quick upgrades.... and then that person will go and hire some random person that lacks structured airline training and when they send them to Europe or Miami they land beyond the touchdown zone or tailstrike an aircraft and get to keep their jobs. None of the Swift 119’s come from structured 121 airlines. The incidents in poor pilot performance have been mitigated at most regional airlines. However the pilot group here comes from the last frontier of airline flying-135 cargo and cargo ACMI . Where it takes a regional F/O 4 months to get through Indoc and an intial checkride...it takes a month and a half to do indoc/systems/OE at Swift. Desperation has meant all pilots get a trophy. Anywhere else they’d be on the street.
Its challenging to stay positive. Being negative won’t make the challenges any easier to face. Theres some good people at Swift and if given the chance they could turn the ship around (or at least get it pointed in the right direction).
From the time of the interview up until Indoc, there will be/have been promises of quick upgrades.... and then that person will go and hire some random person that lacks structured airline training and when they send them to Europe or Miami they land beyond the touchdown zone or tailstrike an aircraft and get to keep their jobs. None of the Swift 119’s come from structured 121 airlines. The incidents in poor pilot performance have been mitigated at most regional airlines. However the pilot group here comes from the last frontier of airline flying-135 cargo and cargo ACMI . Where it takes a regional F/O 4 months to get through Indoc and an intial checkride...it takes a month and a half to do indoc/systems/OE at Swift. Desperation has meant all pilots get a trophy. Anywhere else they’d be on the street.
Its challenging to stay positive. Being negative won’t make the challenges any easier to face. Theres some good people at Swift and if given the chance they could turn the ship around (or at least get it pointed in the right direction).
Different animal, quite scary actually.....best thing that could happen to Swift right now is to hire more people that comes from a well structured training program aka 121 regionals.
But wait management thinks they are competing with regionals in pay, QOL and benefits...........get your head out of your 1234.
02-24-2019, 09:49 AM
#250
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Gear Handle supervisor
Posts: 1,035
Originally Posted by Hellafo
top notch post! I have flown with captains that would never make a regional captain slot.
Different animal, quite scary actually.....best thing that could happen to Swift right now is to hire more people that comes from a well structured training program aka 121 regionals.
But wait management thinks they are competing with regionals in pay, QOL and benefits...........get your head out of your 1234.
Different animal, quite scary actually.....best thing that could happen to Swift right now is to hire more people that comes from a well structured training program aka 121 regionals.
But wait management thinks they are competing with regionals in pay, QOL and benefits...........get your head out of your 1234.
Even in the regionals you have that 10% of CA that you wonder how they made it thru. The difference here is we have a mix of everything here, 135, 91, cargo, 121 major and regional. I will say the new guys from the regionals we have got lately have been a great addition to the cadre and do really well here. The rigid standards in the regionals they bring have help us a lot.
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