So where's the smart companies?
 

So where's a guy supposed to go to get a ground instructor job?


I have two decades of experience with a major carrier, but no certificates. Due to medical reasons I had to quit but that's all rectified now. In the meantime, the goalposts got moved and the mental geniuses in management everywhere from FlightSafety to every place in-between are demanding ATP's and 2500 hours to teach classroom and FTD's.


Meanwhile, out of the other side of their mouths, they are whining about the pilot shortage. They then complain they get a new guy to teach groundschool and six months later, that same guy, finding a flying job, leaves.



This helps to ruin classroom continuity, credibility and familiarity with line pilots or customers, depending on the training operation/outfit.


At the same time, these margin-pushers actually believe that their doors will be beaten down by retired airline captains who just can't wait to become ground instructors for 1/4 of their former pay, long hours and having absolutely no authority. In other words, at at least one carrier I'm familiar with, they had six of them quit in one month.



When my father retired, consummate aviator that he was, with over 35,000 hours said, "I do not want to look at another airplane as long as I live".



I can't imagine there are that many retired captains who feel so differently or have to maintain alimony/child support on previous personal obligations that feel they need to go get a $60,000/year job.


I have been through the gig enough times now where the interviewer is merely going through the motions. They want a pilot but none applied. They are holding out and at the last minute, they get the guy they want. Then they call me while avoiding telling me that guy they hired went off to go fly airplanes.



Plus, the ATP and 2500 "requirement" which seems to be the result of an urban myth that the "Colgan Rule" requires that. No...it doesn't. It does for FLIGHT training. But, systems and procedures...no. I have taught it all and have over 10,000 hours in the classroom and another 10,000+ in FTD/IPT. No full-motion sims as the ATP's and check-airmen did that. They loved that we got the pilots squared away on all the mundane/repetitive tasks for cockpit management and they praised us regularly.


But now, here we are and I have to say I think the problem is a combination of many things to include generational. The managers I've seen who are of my generation, I've noticed all my life that they are not very practical, problem-solving people. They are more lemming-like and unwilling to risk making a "bad" decision so instead, do what everyone else is doing because it's "safe". And they all think that demanding an ATP and 2500 hours will make better instructors. Instead, pilots use the ground instructor gig to keep a paycheck while they send resumes out for flying jobs. (Who would'a thunkit, right?)



Not taking it personally, but I've interviewed with many big names and didn't get hired. One large cargo outfit that lives in Tennessee, that I interviewed for a curriculum developer position actually told me, "We feel you would do much better here as an instructor." I said, "Great, when can I start?" and they replied, "Well, we can't hire you as an instructor because you don't have an ATP or any jet time...but we'll keep your resume and let you know.":mad:


As the story goes, they have a legal-beagle who is prohibiting the hiring of ground instructors without those quals. As was put to me by several people I know there, "We're frustrated! We have stacks of really great instructors with gobs of experience who would fill our ranks and stick around...but the legal department won't let us hire them!"


Meanwhile, my house is being foreclosed on, I've lost my shirt, can't pay my bills and have to go apply for welfare while I watch as everything I worked for for the past 40 years go *POOF* because "the industry" has its head up and locked. My experience has taught me that it takes ~6 years for the light bulb to get noticed (it's already been on for over a year) and someone to take bold action to get the instructor ranks filled and maintained.



Now....SwiftAir has been soliciting for ground instructors for months. Every other ad on INDEED is for them. I have applied and I tried calling their number in Phoenix. It used to ring and answer and give options. Now it's just a busy signal. I sent my resume to one of their major operatives and he assured me that they are up-and-running, growing, etc. And he handed my resume to the chief pilot. I found his number via a pilot jobs website.



I think, again, "the industry" is not well and my experience is showing me that training departments in majors as well as private concerns with places like FlightSafety have adopted a "square-fill" attitude towards it. The carrier I left had been telling us---"Just do what you do to get them through...they'll learn it on the line". I won't mention the name of the carrier that's based in Dallas that used to have an orange stripe on the side; That would be "unprofessional". In the meantime, all carriers like to claim their pilots are the "best-trained" while at the same time, cutting funding for training departments and the FAA is strangely quiescent about this. (????)


I interviewed to be an international procedures instructor for a private training enterprise but was told, "A G-V captain will immediately know that you've never done this for real." I bit my tongue short of saying, "SO WHAT?" This same guy, in the next sentence lamented how he can't keep instructors on the property due to the pilot shortage. I didn't mind his attitude half as much as I minded his opinion of me; He must've thought I was stupid. (IOW...how can I POSSIBLY train a pilot if I've never flown high-performance jet aircraft?) Ans: I'm smart and very keenly aware and have been around aviation all my life. I have flown in an F-16. been "surrogate instructor" for F-16 newbies, have some flying time and am keenly aware of time management/prioritization because of the day-to-day aspects of my job "flying" real-time trips in flight training devices...which....I guess to some outfits is tantamount to "kissing your sister". *sigh*



Meanwhile, my life is down the tubes and I need a job. I can teach an airplane like you wouldn't believe. I am patient, careful, attentive and will make SURE you do it right so as to avoid any pitfalls in an oral or SPV. I guess that makes me a dinosaur because managers seem to think that the learning portion of it should all be done by self-study and "pick it up as you go along".



Well, I have a picture of an A320 that was destroyed by a captain in Philadelphia because neither he nor the FO knew what the airplane would do if the V-speeds were not loaded into the MCDU. No one was killed but the six-month old airframe was a total loss. Training? "They'll get that on the line!"


I have a great respect for the profession of flying airplanes. It is, categorically, an unnatural place for humans to be and requires seriousness and due diligence to make sure things don't go wrong. I take pride in that I've trained thousands and lost only one to an oral exam; A guy who had been furloughed for seven years and was selling real estate. He had a "cascade failure" in the oral and it went downhill from there but he re-took it and passed and is still flying today.



Anyone got any ideas of who's hiring? That is, a place that won't simply dismiss me for not having an ATP.


I've applied to UAL, DAL, FlightSafety, FedEx, UPS, some small local outfits (who insulted me) and a few others.



Thanks for reading all of this. I am wondering if Swift is actually going to start their own training department or if it's another fantasy they have.

Wow that was a lot....

Swift has been touting getting their own training for years. Yet they’re still dependent on panam or FTI you name it those change as their performance suffers or betters.

They have a lot of hopes and dreams, but their execution sucks. Some of the check airman are qualified to do PCs but not type rides. As far as ground instruction, they use the former director of training who has retired to teach recurrent and they hired a former AA/US pilot for new hire ground last year.

So I’d take that with a grain of salt, bet they’ll call when you already have another job lined up, seems to always happen that way.

I'll likely be dead before that happens.



My point being that they so oddly believe that retired pilots automatically make better instructors. Well...not the ones I've seen. I'm sure some are quite capable but, especially at the Boeing TC in MIA, I watched as the retired captains did not instruct at all, shrugged their shoulders when asked questions and did not trouble themselves with the incredibly monotonous task of loading the FMC and watching for those common errors that can create problems, nor how to back out of them if they happen.


Huge amounts of "cruise-control" going on, collecting a paycheck and filling squares.



If I could, I'd just go drive trucks...but there's that medical thing.



I think the industry is very broken. As you said, Swift has many dreams but fails at execution...probably due to the people who they consult. The lack of intuition and basic understanding is palpable. So they look for "experts" whose expertise is actually just how to spend money.



I wish them luck...all of them. Accidents will start happening due to a great many reasons and then the "tombstone engineering and/or remediation" will occur. I'm not saying I want this to happen, no; I'm saying it will happen due to complacency and negligence.



Thanks for the reply. I didn't know their instructor is a AA/US guy. I might even know him. If that's the case and he saw my name...I guess I can forget about a job there.

No matter how good you think you are. Others are the judge of your greatness.

Good or bad. Aviation is too small a community to not go unnoticed.

I would agree save for that human-nature thing where, depending on one's level of "power", they can ruin a guy. I focus instead on being thorough and paying attention to my pilots when instructing, making sure they are "getting it".



A passion for the job is important. It's the most rewarding job I've ever had. It's especially nice since I still have contact with a great many of the pilots I've trained. I even had one in Miami stop their car, turn around and call after me when he saw me at the Boeing TC. Perhaps one of the best things I've ever experienced to be remembered so well.



Swift Air has tons of solicitations for ground instructor all over the interwebz....One would THINK that means they are looking for ground instructors. But...their phone number in Phoenix only gives a busy signal anymore. I suppose it could mean anything or nothing.

Manager of Training Jim Ellis
[email protected]

It's a tough decision but.....maybe it's time for a career change. Get a realtor license and make better money and be home. Or find something else you have always wanted to do. In avaition everyone has to have something on the back burner as a backup plan in case it all goes down the $hi!er.

I appreciate the suggestion. As a ground instructor, I was home every night. This in no way is a slam on the lifestyle of an airline pilot. Before diagnosed with this debilitating condition, I wanted to fly for the airlines someday too.


I'm no salesman. In fact, I couldn't sell a drink of water to a thirsty man. Guilding the lily and what-not are not in my skillset. I am looking at other career fields but 99% of them truly do not interest me and the rest are sales jobs. I know people who can sell condoms to lesbians...but I'm definitely not of that talent.



I take the blame for not getting more education in something I am interested in but maybe the state can help me with that. It's rough going but I still think the industry is "broken" and managers still believe that retired 747 captains are just going to fall all over themselves to beat down the doors of training departments. So far....I've not seen it.

Thanks PnP, I sent a polite inquiry with resume attached. See if it bears any fruit.



Much obliged.

Thanks. My other gratitude post got taken into the moderation ether...


No idea why.