RRonin

Please forgive me if I've posted this in the wrong place.



I'm a touring/studio musician with an aviation background (beginning in to 70's) that includes currently having a Citation M2 in my hangar. Before you ask, I'm paying my dues to learn to fly it now. I'm not a pro pilot, just recreational and "flights over dry land". LOL!



I have access to a Citation X+ (and crew) for a part of my next tour (2018-2019) and I'm considering flights to Tokyo from Seattle using this aircraft in lieu of something like a Gulfstream G450 (which I also have access to). We're hauling passengers and luggage. All of our gear (aside from a few guitars) will be on that side already.



Has anyone flown from Seattle to Anchorage and then on to Tokyo in this aircraft? Time frame is December 2018 and then again in March 2019. Insights? Other than stretching our legs in Alaska during refueling, does this actually pencil? I realize that we'll be running thin fuel by Japan.



But is this doable without scaring hell out of our wives? I'll sooth my fears in old Scotch.



I'm trying to determine if it's actually feasible and realistic. Considerations in aircraft type are due to my production company's financial contributions to the trips. If the X+ will work, I'd prefer it.



Thanks for the insights. I appreciate it.

PT6 Flyer

Ronin-san!

Sit down with a qualified Citation X Instructor, do a flight plan, and calculate the fuel-burn that will be required. This will tell you exactly what you need to know.

If you can, try to land at HND not NRT because HND is near downtown Tokyo whereas NRT is out in the country.

galaxy flyer

The ANC-HND sector will likely require a stop on the Citation, but non-stop in the G450. Tech stops could be at Petropavlovsk or Sakhalin. It might just make Chitose.


GF

RRonin

I really have no idea who the crew will be just yet (still undefined) and I'm not one of you guys. I envy you guys, truth be told. I'm just a Blues guitar playin' wannabe pilot with a death wish I don't wish to exercise in the Sea of Japan or elsewhere in icy water!



I don't really have a Citation X instructor I can call. I wish! LOL! I'm just trying to find out if it's possible and that aircraft and that part of the world as a pilot are well above my pay grade. LOL!


(For the record, I inherited my M2 from my Dad. I'm still trying to build up enough hours and competence - proficiency - to earn the right to fly her. For now it's safely tucked away in a hangar a few miles from my ranch. One I get that worked out, I'll fly back and forth from Montana to Nashville and LA when need be. Ah, to dream! [sigh!])



I know the G450 can do Seattle-Tokyo easily but it's SO much more money. If the X+ (a relative's plane and thus more affordable) will make the reach, I'll suffer through the long flight nursing 50 year old Scotch. My concern is weather and winds and I'm wondering if at those times of year we'll reach Japan to refuel if necessary before Tokyo if need be.

RRonin

I actually wondered if we'd make Hokkaido. It does look like with winds helping we'd make Tokyo on fumes and I've heard rumors that there are some guys who do it. Having never flown that route before (as a passenger, much less within earshot of the guys doing all the heavy lifting) I knew we would be in skinny fuel with the X+'s max range.



What I'm trying to avoid is spending all my appearance money on stage for that G450, even though I'm sure it would be a trip of a lifetime. LOL!

GraceMonth

Please don’t plan to land anywhere on fumes. A tech stop for fuel will be the best plan if you decide to book the trip on the Citation X+.

hav3atps

First off, I commend you for being successful to the point of world touring at playing blues. As a 42 year studying drummer, you have my respect. Might I suggest you check out https://forums.*************.com/forum.php You may have a lot better luck finding corporate types that you seek. Just a thought. Best..

capnflyright

I am a G450 captain and if you have any questions about the plane and it’s capabilties feel free to ask. I’ll ask a few,

How many people? Will you be carrying your equipment plus bags?

RRonin

Thanks. I definitely put in my 10,000 hours+. Been playing with cans (in the studio) since 16 and I'm pushing 60 now. Been out a few times with well known bands but never really had my own story to tell until now. I guess time writes the book, huh? You can hear some of my stuff on Soundcloud (I test material there).



The tour has gone from 100 shows to more than I ever wanted (almost double). Thank goodness for the gate! I might be able to afford this aircraft yet!



Thanks for the recommend on the other forum. I'll check it out. I need to wrap my head around this before the amps start buzzing in my ears!



And KEEP playing! Like fine wine, with proper aging, you get far better as the years roll by!

RRonin

Greeting, Capt.


8 passengers. Mature couples (45-60yrs old). Fairly fit and reasonably trim. We're pretty civilized and we all have (corporate type) day jobs (which we're taking sabbaticals from to tour) too! LOL!



Luggage, wives, more luggage (LOL!) and some old guitars. Most of our gear will already be in place. (We always lease sound and lighting gear on the European and Asian sides to prevent loss or damage to our own gear.)


The idea is to fly from Seattle to Tokyo, with as few stops as possible. While I have a Citation X+ for the US side (and if if works it could go with us overseas) the idea of it just doesn't seem to pencil on such long flights. The G450 we're looking at would be quite comfortable over a long flight and we're not getting any younger.



I know getting the Citation X+ to Tokyo is a big haul (at least 2 tech stops) and the G450 makes that reach far simpler. But it's right at the edge of the G450s range so is it even possible as a non-stop? Would you fly Anchorage and then Japan or fly Honolulu - Japan to avoid heavy weather in Alaskan Winter?



We'll do what we have to. We just want to fly smart. This is way out of my wheelhouse. I'm a amateur pilot on my best day.



There is obviously a big difference in costs to production company and band for this junket when comparing both aircraft. Flights in December and March. The concern is the tech stop in Anchorage in what could be severe conditions and then the push toward Japan in the X+. It's why I'm thinking for safety and comfort the G450 may be a better fit.



You get to do the cool job, I get to look out the windows and wonder how many hours I'd have to add to my own tickets to be able to even think about flying aircraft like yours. It's hard enough wrapping my head around learning to fly the M2 inherited. That'll keep me busy until next year.



Sorry for the long response. I'm just trying to determine the most feasible flights for all involved.



Thank you for your response. I appreciate it greatly!