damnyourabbit

So what about upgrading AND flying a 737? Because in my position it's going to be another year as an FO anyway, I could start now on the seniority at SCA. This is the ONLY time I would even consider this given how little I have invested.



I think a lot has to do with how often reserve captains actually fly at SCA? Does anybody know? That seems important.



And Sliceback, thanks very much for you input.

damnyourabbit

For any Sun Country pilots out there, was the decision to go something you are currently regretting? Or was it worth it? I would love to hear honest answers to that question. I think that would be very insightful.

ShyGuy

Ask yourself. When Age 67/70 passes or when the industry tanks again, where would you rather be stuck? Skywest or Sun Country?

Roll the dice and go. Worse case, you get home based right seat 737. Best case, someone bigger buys you out. I went to a LCC that ended up being bought by a legacy. Make no mistake, there will be more mergers especially among the un-merged. Hawaiian, JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, and Sun Country are the only majors that haven’t merged yet in recent times. They will merge, be bought, acquired, etc.

greenpilot20

Was in the same boat several years ago...tried desperately to get on w/ Sun Country, but they were in a hiring lull.

Ended up staying, and on my first day of Captain ground school at SKW, finally got the call to interview. Needless to say, at that point it was even clearer that staying was the right move.

I'd check into Sun Country's history a little more...furloughs, multiple bankruptcies, highest lease rates in the industry-it's a checkered past-albeit with a promising future as a low cost, no frills airline with a solid pilot group and a (somewhat) loyal customer base.

My .02, is to stay at SKW, bc you'll upgrade sooner rather than later, fly a ton, and focus on getting out to a destination airline ASAP. But maybe that's just bc it worked out for me. Best of luck, and feel free to PM if you need more info.

WHACKMASTER

This. RUN to Sun Country if you get the offer. I flew international charters at a non-sked in my late 20s and it was so much fun. You’ll love it and get a life experience that you can never get even at UAL or DLA. Seriously.....this shouldn’t even be debated.

Sliceback

APC has SC’s fleet and pilot corps size. What’s the updated fleet and pilot corps size? What are their short term hiring plans? What’s their attrition rate for guys leaving to other jobs? They’re currently at 14 pilots per aircraft. That’s probably a hiring bubble, and perhaps retention related, slightly high number. What’s the manning requirement if it drops to 12 pilots per aircraft?

Based on 450 pilots by EO 2018, 10% annual attrition, 6-7 aircraft increase per year, upgrading at 60% of the overall seniority list, I’d estimate your looking at a late 2021 upgrade. If manning drops to 12 per aircraft I’d estimate an upgrade in 2022.

Based on a 1-1.5 estimate to upgrade at SKW there’s a good possibility you’d be at approx 1000 hrs 121 PIC in 2021 when you’d upgrade at SC. Based on those assumptions switching to SC vs staying at SKW might be a 1.5-2 yr delay to 1000 hrs 121 PIC.

You’d have to estimate the confidence level of your SKW upgrade estimates. How stable is their 3-4 yr regional contract outlook with their major partners? If the upgrade estimate is 1.5-2 yrs I think I’d stay at SKW. If the upgrade estimates are based on attrition I’d give that a higher confidence level vs having to rely on SC’s planned expansion. If SC only gets half the aircraft they’re expecting your time to upgrade, with 10% attrition, your AC might be 2022 or later. By then you’d be in the 1500-2000 121 PIC range at SKW (assuming advancement stays as you estimated).

Since you’ve been at SKW a year I’m estimating your at a minimum of 2,000-2,500 TT. In three years does your projected SKW resume have you at 4,500-5,000 TT and 1,000 121 TPIC? 29 yrs old? At 30 you’d be 5,000-6,000 TT and 1,500 121 PIC? Plus any other PIC time bumping you to 2,000-2,500 PIC? That’s when the hiring bubble is at its peak which will last several years. (search TallFlyer’s posts).

Compare your future resumes, which includes future fleet and pilot corps size at both airlines, when choosing either job achieves specific TT/PIC/121 PIC gates (3K, 4K, 5K/1,000, 2,000/500, 1,000) and make steady decisions. As a young guy live smaller and ignore the money differences. Getting hired six months sooner will more than pay for any short term pay differences you’ll experience over the next 3-5 yrs. Choose the best resume path that focuses on advancing your major airline goal fastest.

Sliceback

I just reread your post. re:upgrading within a year. Crunch the pilot corps size at SC after getting the current head count and see if anyone has actual attrition rates. Given an average fleet increase of 6-7 aircraft per year and an attrition rate of 10% you might upgrade 2-3 yrs sooner at SKW. You'd have 1,000-2,000 hrs 121 PIC before you upgrade at SC. If you compare side by side future resumes I’d think that would jump off the page.

Viking6

Research the history of SY, especially during economic downturns. If your long term plan is Southwest, then maybe.

DSRoss996

If you're looking to build time in the 737 and get to a major this might not be the place to go. We really don't fly here that often. Lots of trips are rigged and inefficient to go along with ton's of deadheading.

Comparing the 3 years at my previous regional vs the 3 years here at SY I have about 1300 less flight hours. As for reserve captains at SY flying? Not very often at all. The last two months have notched me 19 hours of TPIC.

saab2000

This is what I'd say as well.

Apply. Interview if you get invited. Then decide.

I've done a regional like Skywest for a long time. I did Sun Country for a year. I have no regrets.

I was hired in early 2016 at SY and some of my classmates who are there have upgraded to captain now if that tells you anything. But many don't take first available.

If you live in MSP and are happy to stay, it could be a decent choice. It certainly opened up a big opportunity for me but I had thousands of hours of total time, jet time and jet PIC, so we aren't really comparable. Besides, I'm closer to the end of my career than the beginning and you are closer to the beginning.

Tough choice but made easier if you live in, and wish to stay in, the MSP area. Sunny is not commuter-friendly in the least. But if you live there it can be a good place to work. I would have stayed but was basically offered something I couldn't refuse, and I have pretty deep roots in Minneapolis.

The international stuff is interesting and having lived overseas I would probably have kept doing it had I stayed.

No regrets here but I had sort of run the course at the regionals and it was time for a change.

BTW, don't underestimate the challenge of training at Sun Country. It's no cakewalk. Don't think because they're small and short of pilots that they're going to let anyone skate through. That doesn't happen. So if you go that route take it seriously and buckle down to get through.