Miami Air
04-02-2017, 09:01 AM
#251
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Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 235
Originally Posted by zondaracer
Not a violation but rather exercising their 5th freedom rights, or actually 7th freedom in this case.
04-02-2017, 12:33 PM
#252
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Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 207
I would imagine it has something to with the a US Carrier subcontracting their flying to a foreign carrier. In this case Apple Vacations contracted Miami Air to fly the flights and Miami Air sub contracted it out to TUI Belgium. Nothing in our current CBA stops them from doing this.
We do a similar thing in reverse for TUIfly in the Netherlands every summer. We fly their routes from AMS to various places in Europe during their heavy summer months.
Norwegian would like to fly their own flights between the US and other countries.
We do a similar thing in reverse for TUIfly in the Netherlands every summer. We fly their routes from AMS to various places in Europe during their heavy summer months.
Norwegian would like to fly their own flights between the US and other countries.
04-02-2017, 02:43 PM
#253
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Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 235
Originally Posted by anthony210
I would imagine it has something to with the a US Carrier subcontracting their flying to a foreign carrier. In this case Apple Vacations contracted Miami Air to fly the flights and Miami Air sub contracted it out to TUI Belgium. Nothing in our current CBA stops them from doing this.
We do a similar thing in reverse for TUIfly in the Netherlands every summer. We fly their routes from AMS to various places in Europe during their heavy summer months.
Norwegian would like to fly their own flights between the US and other countries.
We do a similar thing in reverse for TUIfly in the Netherlands every summer. We fly their routes from AMS to various places in Europe during their heavy summer months.
Norwegian would like to fly their own flights between the US and other countries.
So why instead of just flying their planes, Miami Air doesn't subcontract way cheaper crew+plane from Africa for every flight? I still can't understand how you can subcontract a flight with a foreign carrier and that be legal in the air freedoms we currently have.
04-02-2017, 04:10 PM
#254
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Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 207
Originally Posted by mike sierra
Anthony, I understand your point, however I still have the following question:
So why instead of just flying their planes, Miami Air doesn't subcontract way cheaper crew+plane from Africa for every flight? I still can't understand how you can subcontract a flight with a foreign carrier and that be legal in the air freedoms we currently have.
So why instead of just flying their planes, Miami Air doesn't subcontract way cheaper crew+plane from Africa for every flight? I still can't understand how you can subcontract a flight with a foreign carrier and that be legal in the air freedoms we currently have.
As for the air freedoms. I don't know anything about that. All I know is we do the same for TUI every summer.
04-02-2017, 06:13 PM
#255
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: retired
Posts: 560
Originally Posted by mike sierra
Anthony, I understand your point, however I still have the following question:
So why instead of just flying their planes, Miami Air doesn't subcontract way cheaper crew+plane from Africa for every flight? I still can't understand how you can subcontract a flight with a foreign carrier and that be legal in the air freedoms we currently have.
So why instead of just flying their planes, Miami Air doesn't subcontract way cheaper crew+plane from Africa for every flight? I still can't understand how you can subcontract a flight with a foreign carrier and that be legal in the air freedoms we currently have.
04-02-2017, 06:42 PM
#256
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Originally Posted by mike sierra
Anthony, I understand your point, however I still have the following question:
So why instead of just flying their planes, Miami Air doesn't subcontract way cheaper crew+plane from Africa for every flight? I still can't understand how you can subcontract a flight with a foreign carrier and that be legal in the air freedoms we currently have.
So why instead of just flying their planes, Miami Air doesn't subcontract way cheaper crew+plane from Africa for every flight? I still can't understand how you can subcontract a flight with a foreign carrier and that be legal in the air freedoms we currently have.
Most carriers in Africa would be more expensive than Miami Air. Getting their planes from Africa to the US to do the charter is a big deal for the smaller carriers. The larger carriers, like Ethiopian or Royal Air Moroc, are busy with their own flights. The carriers would be subject to FAA inspection, and that would not go very well for many. Also, Africa tends to IMPORT pilots. They don't have very many excess pilots or planes that they could afford to leave Africa to fly someone else's stuff. There are a lot of US and European pilots flying in Africa. Not so many African pilots flying outside of Africa...
04-02-2017, 07:47 PM
#257
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Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 235
Originally Posted by filejw
Its is called a 5 th Freedom Right and they are given all the time. Both charter and scheduled carriers use this .
Because from what I understand the flight never originated or ended at the carrier (TUI) country.
Atpcliff:
That was just a example, I'm still trying to understand the regulations concern about sub-leasing a foreign aircraft/crew. Your point about being FAA certified was interesting, however aren't the pilots only EASA licensed?
Thanks for all answers
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